June 22, 2015

Karen Oliveto and the LGBT Movement

In her recent sermon at Foundry United Methodist Church, Karen Oliveto, a pastor at Glide Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco and a prominent activist in the LGBT-affirming Reconciling Ministries Network, made a bold charge to the Methodist church: fight the exclusivism of morally conservative Christianity. Oliveto’s sermon, entitled “Can I Trust You With My Dignity?” concluded that the LGBT community cannot trust the church, leading to its eschewing church involvement.

Is the church off track in this area? Is moral conservatism akin to pharisaical legalism? Oliveto says that it is.

Her sermon equates the LGBT community to the man with the withered hand of Mark 3 and likens those asserting the incompatibility of active homosexual lifestyles and Christianity to the hard-hearted Pharisees who oppose Jesus’ Sabbath healing. Referring to the passage in Mark, Oliveto says: “Jesus is casting sacred tradition aside and throwing rules and regulations out the door. He is defying church law…[He] upsets the status quo created by those in power.”

Certainly there is some truth in these statements. Jesus is consistently portrayed in the Gospels as being deeply distressed at the stubbornness of the Pharisees and forthrightly speaking against their hypocrisy and legalism. He even overturns some ceremonial Mosaic laws, such as eating regulations.

Her further eisegetical interpretation is where Oliveto goes wrong. Jesus did not loosen, but strengthen moral laws. Looking on a woman lustfully is now equivalent to adultery; hating one’s brother is now equal to murder. It does not follow, then, that Jesus ever intended to condone a practice that Romans 1 calls degrading, improper, and a result of suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and exchanging the truth of God for a lie. Paul is abundantly clear!

For further confirmation, take a look at the words of Jesus below. (Many will claim that these words apply only to divorce, but their teaching clearly details Christ’s view of marriage and gender.)

Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate (Matthew 19:4–6 NASB, emphasis added).

God created them male and female (not any sort of mixture!). What God has joined, let no man separate. Yet Oliveto implies that the UMC, in fighting the homosexual agenda in the church, is a house that is both divided and “willing to let some suffer so that others can be comfortable.” I, for one, can say that it is far from comfortable to speak God’s truth in the face of such audacious opposition.

Oliveto goes on to question whether the church has a full revelation of God’s love: “If we are a people who believe in what scripture tell us [sic], that God is love and love is of God but refuse to let same sex couples be married by their pastors in their churches, are we still a vessel of the love of God?”

She goes as far as to say that “the love between two same-gender loving people is God-given,” and questions whether the church is “being the church” if it refuses to bless, honor, and recognize same-sex relations and marriages.

What the Bible condemns as sinful behavior is “God-given”? What of James 1:13: “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone” (NASB)? This passage makes clear that God neither condones sin nor implants sinful desires.

Oliveto likens the LGBT agenda to the civil rights movement, saying, “When there is an unwritten law in this country against walking while black…it is time to shake up the status quo.”

I agree completely that racism is an immoral and a horrible reality and that the church should be at the forefront of racial reconciliation. The comparison of the two movements, however, is logically flawed. There is no essential difference between a black and a(n) ______ (fill in a race) person’s ability to participate in the political process. There is a vast difference between the benefits endowed on the state by same-sex “marriages” and heterosexual marriages.

The fact that the institution of homosexual “marriage” as a whole (that is to say that, this is true of every same-sex parenting couple) guarantees that a child will be either motherless or fatherless and guarantees that no children will be in the environment most conducive to their physical, emotional, and mental development means that it does not and cannot endow the same benefits on the state that the institution of heterosexual marriages as a whole can.

When did parenting become focused on the parents’ happiness at the cost of the children’s well-being? How is supporting same-sex relationships and parenting “what it means to be a disciple of Jesus,” as Oliveto says?

Sure to capture her entire idea of social justice into her brief sermon, Oliveto draws abortion into the conversation: “And when men tell women we can’t be trusted with our reproductive rights, it’s time to shake up the status quo.”

I would like to see some scriptural references of a continual “right” to murder the innocent unborn. Certainly there is war in scripture, but it is our job to “Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute” Proverbs 31:8 ESV.

Wake up, Church. Your voice is needed now perhaps more than ever. Speak the truth in love, show compassion on the very real feelings and desires of the LGBT community, and do not condemn homosexual sin as worse than others. Above all, stand firm and do not back down.


31 Responses to Karen Oliveto and the LGBT Movement

  1. DavidPHart says:

    Nothing “exclusive” about my church, thank you, ma’am.

  2. Namyriah says:

    The church exists to make sexual minorities feel good about themselves. Everyone knows that’s why Jesus and his apostles lost their lives, to boost the self-esteem of these poor little dears.

    • Mark Brooks says:

      Not everyone will appreciate your satire, but I did. Thanks.

      • Namyriah says:

        I’ve been hearing their LBGT propaganda for decades. Back in the 1980s, the cliche was “Let the church be the church!” meaning “Condone immorality!” The bureaucrats, trained in the left-wing seminaries, caved in.

  3. Larry Patten says:

    Do you really, really want to go down the path of saying that “Paul is abundantly clear?” If anything, Paul is oft abundantly unclear in scripture, and also contradictory. Your views of Rev. Oliveto’s sermon seem more to focus on your predetermined views than her proclamation.

    • calduncan says:

      Paul is very clear. No one thought he was unclear until gay activists started questioning Paul in the 1970s. Why would a group of homosexuals possess any deep insights into the Bible? Answer: they don’t, they are people with an agenda.

      • Larry Patten says:

        I read I Corinthians 7 and I “hear” Paul being somewhat confused about what to state regarding marriage. I suspect he’s feeling the pressure of believing Christ’s “second coming” will be soon . . . so who cares about marriage? I suspect he also feels a sense that his way of being single is the better way . . . but there are many who are happily married. Here, and other places, Paul has mixed messages.

        • darh477 says:

          Hogwash.

          • Larry Patten says:

            Blessings to you too . . . I believe scripture is open to interpretation . . . that part of Judeo-Christian tradition is to explore, discover, and rediscover the good news. And even if you disagree my interpretation, it ain’t hogwash, but another precious person’s differing view. Maybe I can learn from you. Maybe you can learn from me.

  4. Steve Garnaas-Holmes says:

    The moral law that Jesus is strengthening (and Paul is affirming) is not concern with the contents of a couple’s’ pants but the contents of their relationship. This is not about making people feel good, but basing our moral judgments on loving behavior, not on biological destiny. The moral value is love, not exclusion.

  5. Darren Hochstedler says:

    Interesting how all you conservatives abhor racism now WHEN THE EXACT SAME LOGIC was used by the exact same type of people against interracial marriage, race equality, income equality, etc. until very recently. Why are you not advocating the stoning of divorced women which is clearly sanctioned by the bible? This is yet another battle you will lose as the arc bends towards justice…

    • Neil Bragg says:

      PC 101
      Heard it all before.
      Starting off a post with “You conservatives” isn’t exactly the ideal way to sway an audience.

      There is not “arc of justice,” that is a myth. In the 1920s, Jews were well assimilated into Germany society. In the 1930s, it all went sour. Leftists foolishly assume that all change is good chance. That is a lie.

    • David Goudie says:

      I’m still curious that when I look at those denominations which led the antislavery movement (Free Methodist, Wesleyan, AME, AME Zion) … and look at their stance on homosexuality now which is usually more ‘conservative’ … then I look at other denominations that have taken a proactive homosexuality view … (Episcopalians for example) I often see that before they were more in favor of slavery (or at least not as avid on being out front of racial equality). So my question is why is that? (for it seems to me these facts fly in the face of those who equate race equality with stances on homosexuality).

    • Jonathan Kuperberg says:

      I’d rather go to a church that supported a pro-stoning, anti-race mixing White Christian Reconstructionist government than one which marries filthy perverts engaged in non-Biblical (it’s Bible with a capital B) relationship.
      Race is not like sodomy, you evil reprobate.
      I oppose ‘income equality’ too, not being a communist.

      • MarcoPolo says:

        One doesn’t have to be a Communist to believe in Income Equality.

        Just the other day, on the Charlie Rose Show, a former Goldman-Sachs executive espoused the need for a shift in the disparity of earnings between the CEO’s and their respective Employees. With his endorsement of what clearly is a page from Senator Bernie Sanders’ campaign platform. The sky did not fall, and the conversation was furthered by his belief that putting money into the hands of those in the lower rank and file, is far better for the entire economy, than having money go into the off-shore bank accounts of the 1%.

        Okay, you may call it Socialism. But who cares what one calls it, if it works to restore the Middle Class in America?!

      • Darren Hochstedler says:

        How sad for you. Why even go to church since you’re clearly not a follower of Christ?

        • Jonathan Kuperberg says:

          Sorry, you judgmental reprobate, sodomites and their supporters have no authority to excommunicate me. I AM a follower of Christ.

          That means obeying his Word, not the humanistic “arc of justice” which comes from a man who was a whoremongering adulterer and affiliated to ‘income equality’-loving, Godless Communists.

          Since we don’t have any better authority than the Bible on who Christ is (the second Person in the eternal Godhead), you are a double-minded man unstable in all your ways for seeking to judge who his ‘followers’ are while mocking what is ‘clearly sanctioned in the bible’ (your lower case b.)

          • Darren Hochstedler says:

            No you aren’t.

          • Jonathan Kuperberg says:

            Yes I am AND THAT IS THAT. I WILL be a Christian and follow Christ you deviate and you WILL NOT DECIDE OTHERWISE. You can spout your wicked opinion as many times as you like but you further expose yourself to the vengeance of God every time you open your gainsaying mouth.

            Your filthy, satanic effort to “not-a-true-Christiannize” me is proof of your rotten reprobate heart.

          • Darren Hochstedler says:

            How sad for you. Who wounded you so severely to cause this hatred? Probably your “church”. If all is as you suggest, I’ll see you in hell as your posts have broken more of Jesus’ teachings than that which you are so opposed to. No longer following this thread. Stew in your own hatred by yourself.

          • Jonathan Kuperberg says:

            Which so-called “teachings” do you mean, you filthy LIAR? You can’t cite “judge not lest ye be judged” for you have wickedly judged me (and bore false witness against me) by the sickening “not-a-true-follower” argument.. You can’t cite “love” because anyone who loves others and is serious about the truth of Christianity would never dare tell someone “see you in hell”. On the other hand, I can cite Matthew 19:4-6 without twisting or corrupting the Bible or denying its authority. It is MAN AND WOMAN in God’s eyes, whatever it is in civil law.

            Oh and I go to a church, not a “church” and you have sinned again and calumniated further Godly believers by mislabeling my church as a “church”.

  6. Hi,

    These robed hireling Dog-Collared Priests have no place in the ministry of Jesus but Satan that create divisions and sectarian riots. Different denominations speak of utter Blindness.

    Royal Priests are the sons of Most High Supernatural Father God in which we are concerned with souls that have no gender, colour or race. Fake Priests in Churches being men of letters devoid of holy spirit, “common sense” talk of races and genders. No wonder people are killed in the worship of Satan. People killed in Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, etc. is the work of robed Anti-Christs in Churches.

    We have approached the End Times and the Tares are getting bundled up in Israel; see Matt. 13v24-30. Wholesome destructions of Tares, unfaithful to tribal fathers will take place all over the world.

    Jesus came to get rid of these Rabbis in Dog-Collars and you have got them in one form or the other to fulfil Matt. 12v43-45, what do you expect? They are greater hypocrites than before the arrival of Jesus. Jesus threw Judas Iscariot out at the Last Supper for he was a Thief stealing money from the Purse. People donate money at Churches; this Dog-Collared Priest dips his hand into the donations as his salary. No wonder a retired Vicar when addressed as a Vicar by the BBC presenter Nicky Campbell objected strongly and told him that he is no more a Vicar like a Policeman in uniform. All the life he was serving Mammon with a Dog-Collar making fools of the people that he is a man of God. In God, we have Royal Priests and they enjoy Fellowships.

    If you study the present organisations of the Churches, they are based upon the Synagogues; some are Pharisees and the others more than Sadducees. At, the times of Jesus, these Blind Rabbis had two or three divisions and today in Jesus, more than 300 Cults when Jesus proclaimed One Fold, Church of God, headed by One Shepherd Christ Jesus, our Bridegroom.

    These Churches are like blind men defining an elephant and their Dog-Collared hireling Priests are the most happy job satisfaction people fleecing the devotees of Jesus called turning stones, simple-minded people, into Bread and Butter.

    SHAME TO SUCH ORGANISATIONS ESPECIALLY THE COE HEADED BY QUEEN, THE HEAD OF MAMMON IN GREAT BRITAIN.

    Luke 16v16: Law and Prophets were till John, the Baptist whilst lowest in the Royal Kingdom of God, a Saint, is greater than John, the Baptist, also known as the Angel of Israel.

    We are no more under the yoke of sins and these Dog-Collared Rabbis but Free Royal Priests that enjoy the Fellowships.

  7. Beau Jackson says:

    This Karen Oliveto’s online bio says she is in favor of “unconditional love and unconditional acceptance.” If that were the case, she would have to love and accept the people that her movement refers to constantly as “haters” and “homophobes” and “bigots.” I have not seen any sign that the movement extend “unconditional acceptance” to people who disagree with their position. The left has, since the 1960s, been patting itself on the back with the “unconditional love” mantra and that totally phony “I love ya, man!” It’s all bogus. They are more intolerant of dissent than any medieval Inquisitor ever was.

    • MarcoPolo says:

      You already know how differently I see this issue, yet I don’t think it’s fair to assume that Karen Oliveto has no compassion for those who differ from her beliefs. I know that even though you and I see this issue differently, I still respect you.
      I’m sincere when I say “I love ya, brother!”

  8. apriluser says:

    I think it’s interesting that the Matthew passage quoted says that “a man shall leave his mother and father” not “father and father” or “mother and mother”. . .

    • David Goudie says:

      Thanks for pointing that out, I have often made note of Jesus’ comments before this about God making man and woman ,,, and marriage as between man and woman … but had not really thought of that particular statement as well. Thanks

  9. Wild Child says:

    This Karen Oliveoyl belongs to the Gene Robinson wing of christendom, aka, publicity hos. They couldn’t possibly be thinking of God, Christ, or their neighbor, they are absolutely, passionately, madly in love with themselves.

  10. Darren Hochstedler says:

    I read this crap and don’t see or hear Jesus anywhere in your disgusting posts.

    • Jonathan Kuperberg says:

      Sodomy, sex outside God-ordained husband/wife covenant marriage and butchering innocent pre-born babies are disgusting.
      Believing in the secular “moral arc of justice” view of right and wrong is utterly disgusting and shows a lack of understanding of Christ because He is the same YESTERDAY and TODAY and FOREVER.

      Jesus is NOT in your lovey-dovey inclusiony “equal” world. Else He would not have called that woman a DOG in Mark 7 and thundered against sexual immorality and warned the Jews who rejected them they were the DEVIL’S CHILDREN (‘universal brotherhood of man’? ‘ ‘love’ meaning APPROVAL of sex sin? HA HA HA…Rev Carl McIntire exposed that debased lie half a century ago, 28 years before I was born and 43 years before I was born again and broke out of the mental prison of my liberal parents and Humanist-corrupted cultural milieu.)

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