UMC Social Principles

August 1, 2018

Your Response Needed on Proposed Rewrite of UMC Social Principles!

42 Responses to Your Response Needed on Proposed Rewrite of UMC Social Principles!

  1. Mike says:

    In other words, the liberals will be very pleased with this, and the conservatives (who are the true Christians and Methodists) will continue to exit, but at higher rates, should this rewrite actually be adopted.

  2. Scott says:

    At course of study this year we were broken into groups, given 45 minutes to study a section, and then asked to comment on our section. While we could not be as thorough as John has been, I doubt the man from GBCS was happy with our responses. The survey asked how we thought this reflected the values of Methodist in other countries. I noted the people in the US could not reasonably speak for people in Africa and elsewhere. I also noted that Africans were highly under-represented on the commission that drew up the proposed changes. If I remember correctly there were only 3 Africans on the commission and none on the executive committee, when 38% of all United Methodists live in Africa. Do the progressives on the commission really want to be inclusive, or do they think they know better what the Africans need than the Africans. To me it smacks of racism. Here is a resolution for GC2020. All UMC boards must have proportional representation from all conferences worldwide. Some people might find that scary, I find it to be a reflection of the makeup of Heaven.

  3. Josh says:

    Here’s a proposal: scrap the Social Principles all together and reduce the BOD to a manageable size. And also, rewrite it in the language of ordinary, everyday people. There is no sense for so much of it to be written in “Robert’s Rulese.” John Wesley said “common speech for common people.”

    Does anyone even read these Social Principles? I’ve read them but the church is so divided and the leadership not respected that these principles are useless to the common life of the church.

    Just get rid of it all together, reduce the bloated size of the BOD, actually seek to follow it, enforce, and get on with mission. I don’t know if folks in the upper echelon are aware of just how out of touch they seem. Get out of the board meetings and serve on the local level for God’s sake!

  4. Creed Pogue says:

    I would agree with Josh that the Social Principles should be removed from the Book of Discipline since they are not church law.

    But, if the total word count has gone from 13,407 to 14,376, then it would seem to have failed in the basic mission to make them more succinct.

  5. William says:

    Yes, remove it from the BOD and eliminate the Board of Church & Society, which is nothing but a left wing lobby/activists group closely aligned with the Democratic Party.

  6. Paul W. says:

    As John has done a good job detailing, the document is an extremely poor rewrite which includes many out-of-context and even a fake John Wesley quote! The content is definitely very liberal but the worst part is how they chose to incorporate Scripture in order to give it a “Christian” veneer; instead of using Scripture to develop their positions, they clearly started with a completely secular writeup and went back after the fact to incorporate Scripture references, often badly out-of-context, into the sections. I did a test to verify this; each section is much easier to read and much more coherent if you skip over every Scripture reference and Wesley quote.

    I decided not to submit comments on the document after thinking it through. It would be a waste of time since clearly the authors couldn’t be bothered to produce a document that is truly reflective of the UMC. Worse, they couldn’t even be bothered to assemble a team to competently provide Scriptural or Wesleyan support for their positions. They couldn’t even be bothered to have anyone proof-read the thing! So, why would I then expect this team to suddenly do a 180 and actually care at all about comments attempting to correct the multitude of problems with their document? It needs almost a complete rewrite, not minor markups. I’m not going to waste my time; hopefully a clear message will be sent to GCBS when it gets voted down at GC2020. If the Traditionalist plan passes at GC2019, the next step will be to clean house at our apostate agencies that insist on producing embarassing pseudo-Christian dreck like this document.

  7. Bruce Fensterbush says:

    Once again the GBCS reveals its liberal bias. I agree with others who not only call for a “no” vote on this disastrous rewrite, but also for a proposal to the 2020GC to eliminate the GBCS. It does not speak for the majority of United Methodists and it seems to parrot every policy of the liberal left in our culture. It’s time for the GBCS to go.

    • Charlotte Dillard says:

      If this rewrite passes then the Methodist Church as we know it today will be forever changed and it will not be for the better either. There will be a great exodus from the church. Recommend a “No” vote at 2020GC

  8. Jim Hubbard says:

    Nay Nay Nay! A thousand times NAY! It is not up to the church to change to become like the masses, the church should be trying to bring the masses back to the true religion. Even the small steps we have already seen are damaging our churches and our sond and daughters. Remain strong, and the masses will join you.

  9. Mary Neal says:

    Anything the GBCS does to change the meaning of the Word of God is not acceptable. We had this discussion at my church in Virginia and many of the members are ready to leave the church.

  10. Kathy says:

    I am not alone when I law must be based on the scriptures of our LORD and SAVIOR not on the “wants” of those living outside of the Christian beliefs. We should welcome all to our churches with the understanding of teaching from the scriptures. People purposely living in sin need to be removed from places of leadership. The fastest way to split the Methodist Church is to try and make me change my beliefs…one person tried to change me and I told that person that to make me change my beliefs is like me telling her she couldn’t marry her man…she didn’t try to change my mind again.

  11. Edward says:

    As the UMC crumbles under satanic attack with the aid of their own members I call upon every Christ centered, Bible believing member to stand up and be counted! To also build a chain of Prayer vigils to call our Lord God Almighty to overthrow this evil attack and rid the UMC of these corrupted souls. Lest, we fall the same as the ancient people who ignored the Prophets warnings to return to the Lord!

  12. Jason says:

    This article should be re-titled “GBCS discovers lost chapter of the Gospel of Matthew.” 😂

  13. Lance Thomas says:

    Seems like the left is always looking for ways to undermine the church & weaken & distort the Gospel. Although I agree with the sentiments stated above, I suggest that comments be submitted as John implores. Otherwise the GBCS will argue that no objection equals acceptance or agreement. That being said, I believe any rewrite should be tabled until after the 2019 GC vote.

  14. Tom Perkins says:

    Theology is constant. Views of theology is not constant, The progressive view or liberal view changes theology to fit their changing views. The traditional view faces constant challenges but remains steady in the affirmation of scripture as the inspired Word of God. I am a Traditionalist

  15. Mary Phillips says:

    Remove the Board of Church and Society. Go back to the correct teachings of John Wesley and the Bible. Our church was a growing entity up until 1967 when we were joined with other more progressive organisations.

  16. Dave Gingrich says:

    They got one right – the change on alcohol.

  17. Penny says:

    I copied your article, John, and printed it, then opened the survey and also the copy of the proposed Principles. I commented but I doubt those in charge will care. The ridiculous question on each section about the proposed wordings being SUCCINCT … what was that about? Nothing “succinct” about any of it. It was extremely wordy and seemed almost deliberately confusing in some parts. The progressive left will all reply in the feedback and the Methodists who are supposed to be standing up for traditional values will wake up and find it all changed. Then the split will occur.

  18. Kathe says:

    My heart is just broken. I can’t even begin to respond to this with anything besides grief. “For my people have done two evil things: They have abandoned me–the fountain of living water. And they have dug for themselves cracked cisterns that can hold no water at all!” Jeremiah 2:13

  19. Sharon says:

    I am basically appalled at this editing of our social principles. I don’t understand how countless hours of work & untold number of people have been a part of drafting these social principles and now they can be so drastically be changed by only a few persons? The changes are in opposition to the basic beliefs of Christianity for thousands of years. This is unbiblical & shocking. We don’t need these editing changes unless we want to take a stand for having no social principles at all.

  20. Danny Cox says:

    Here is a radical idea. Do away with the Social Principles. The world doesn’t care what we think, we have no influence any longer. Social Principles on serve to divid us and distract us from focusing on making disciples. The homosexual and abortion language elsewhere could remain.

  21. Lloyd Fleming says:

    These comments have really helped me understand the revisions better. If you folks are against them in the ways and for the reasons you describe, then I am definitely for them.

  22. Nina Long says:

    It really infuriates me that my offerings go to support the work of GBCS. What a waste of time and money that could be better spent in more meaningful missions. And it infuriates me that my money goes to support the Bishops who think they rule our church and know better what is good for it. The Bishops and these boards are so out of touch with what the majority of UMC members believe, I think the only solution is to get rid of them and start fresh. It would be a waste of time to write any of these people.

  23. Steve says:

    I don’t think the GBC&S has made a single statement that I agree with. I would definitely by for dissolving this board. It doesn’t represent my views or the views of most of the people at the last two churches where I have been a pastor.

  24. Henning M Poulsen says:

    As a scandinavian to whom english is second language, it’s good enough to read and understand both the proposal and Johns commends, but it will be too difficult to me to give specific commentarys. Just saying: this hole proposal is a miss, no good for nothing.

    • John Lomperis says:

      Thank you for commenting, Henning. The link at the end of the article above will take you to a place where you have an option of responding to the questions in English OR French, Portuguese, or Swahili, if that’s any help.

  25. Bill Bond says:

    The GBCS has wrapped this change in a soft black furry animal with a white stripe. It looks innocent from a distance, but once you get a hold of it, then you realized it is a skunk that will perpetually ooze rank perfume.

  26. Betty Katiyo says:

    I am of the opinion that GBCS should have given people a revised document with tracked changes so that is easier to see what exactly they altered and whether they are addressing their 3 mandates. They seem to be biased towards the Liberals and are not being Globally focused. Why redefine marriage? What has changed in marriage? Why are we supporting abortion and affirming transgenderism???

    I am of the opinion that this document should not be presented at the 2020 GC. There is need to be transparent in this exercise which has and is gobbling finances and resources which could have been channeled for mission work to bring people to Christ.

    I know that they have gone round in Africa with the draft but after talking to a number of people who participated in the presentation, most of them did not even see that there were these undesirable changes that are not Biblical and which are not compatible with the UMC teachings.

    I agree with someone who said the composition of GBCS needs looking into to for fair representation. Dear Lord help us.

  27. Barbara Huggins says:

    We have been given God’s word , the Bible. We have already changed too many things to accommodate others in their thinking. Time to stop. We must stand firm in the word of God.

  28. Tess Bradlee says:

    thank you for your painstaking work

  29. William Hines says:

    The Bible is true and man is a lier. Only The Holy Spirit can bring unity in body of Christ not man spirit which is sinful

  30. F.R. Holt says:

    I would posit that the problem seems to be the GBCS is more interested in politics than in faith, the Bible, or the UMC as a whole. It seems as if the General Board of Church and Society should change its name to just the General Board of Society. They have dismissed the teaching of the Church and seek to rebuild themselves in the mold of the secular media, who are, after all, in such discussions with the sole purpose to make money. One wonders what has tempted this board to ignore the plain teaching of Scripture and seek to align their recommendations to the secular leftists.

  31. Mike says:

    God is holy, loving, and unchanging. Man is fallen and infected with a terminal disease called sin. Jesus is our only hope. He is the way, the truth and the life. God’s word is also holy and unchanging, and we do not need to “update” it to conform to our own sinfulness. We need to let its truth expose the sin in our lives, repent, and put to death our old sinful nature. He is coming again to judge all mankind, and soon, and we’d better be ready for it, not trying to water His Word down to fit our sin.

  32. Yayuba Bazel Yoila says:

    Be content with your call. Keep Jesus Christ as your focus.It’s his body, his church, his work, and he will keep it going. Pls the GBCS ,Don’t let ego get in God’s way. Let us used our providential call and the Ecclesiastical call . We are going to let foibles and flaws of some to destroy UMC. Respect the Tradition of founding father and understand the importance it has in the people’s Lives,today in UMC.

  33. Daniel Hammans says:

    voting no is the only option! Anything less would be to condone sin.

  34. Mary Neal says:

    If the Conference keeps backing down to the liberals and changing God’s word to be the word according to non believers and liberals the church will die. Many members have already left the church and many more are waiting for the vote and sand ready to leave. Why would any of you who have the power to make the changes want to destroy the church ? If the LGBT really believed they were right they would have left the church already and started their own denomination. It seems they are willing to destroy the church just to say they won. May God be with those who vote to destroy the church.

    • Chuck Morton says:

      Always have to label people , maybe you are wrong and are destroying the church. One thing is for sure, people that are labeled as liberals understand God’s word far more than you and are much more Christian

  35. Nelda Anderson says:

    I’ve read many comments on the UMC changes. My husband and I are deeply saddened by so much unnessary controversy. The Bible was written for Christians to follow, not bend for things that are NOT BIBLICAL! Personally I see UMC rapidly going down hill. How Sad! God help us please.

  36. Judith Foster says:

    What an eye opener! Thanks so much John. I agree with the writer who said a side/by/side transcript of what was and what will be would help really see the changes suggested! Do away with this board. They’re out of touch with the common person in the pew. And I just want to add, only 4% of Americans identify as LGBT+ (as reported in many polls: Gallup, NYT, NPR, etc. … check it out online) and we’re changing our core beliefs for this small minority? Why?

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