For Christians and non-Christians alike, Mormons remain a bit of an enigma. In the U.S. there are almost 7 million and they punch above their weight in terms of political influence; notable members of congress including former senator, and one-time presidential candidate, Mitt Romney.
This influence meant that a row erupted in the past two weeks when the Pentagon released its updated list of religious affiliations and listed the Church of Latter-Day Saints independently from other Christian denominations, implying members were not Christian. This move was quickly denounced, with Mike Lee – a Mormon and Republican Senator – leading the charge, calling the move ‘outrageous’, the Pentagon subsequently backtracked. Yet, many Christian denominations have long felt that Mormons are not Christians as they have their own supplemental scripture and hold different views over the Trinity and the afterlife.
This week I joined Damian Thompson of The Spectator‘s Holy Smoke podcast to discuss the row. Are Mormons Christian? Who gets to decide whether a person is Christian or not? And can the government and state ever have a role in this debate?
Re-posted from The Spectator here.
Comment by Qohelet on June 17, 2026 at 1:40 pm
My big question on this one is “who amongst us is qualified to make that judgment?”
Too many Christians since Constantine give too much weight to creeds. I’m pretty sure Jesus knows us for what we do more than what we say we believe
Comment by Glenn Wheeler on June 17, 2026 at 11:03 pm
Amen, Qohelet!
Comment by Wilson R. on June 18, 2026 at 9:37 am
If JD Vance can be called a Christian, then the term is meaningless.
Comment by Skipper on June 18, 2026 at 6:19 pm
Matthew 7 is about how to judge although it says you will be measured by your own standards. We are to correct others – take the log out of your own eye so you can see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbors eye. In other words, don’t be a hypocrite, but followers must hold each other accountable. Some people try to make this say you are judging to mention anything as sinful. Jesus said we will know his followers by their fruit. That’s making a call. Matthews 7:15 says “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” More judging we must do. We must know who the False prophets are. False prophets are people who pretend to speak for God, to get attention and power.
The Mormons I know don’t claim to be Christian. Why would they when they believe in a host of gods. Some even believe they will become gods themselves. They are well aware that Christians believe in one God and this is all through the Christians book, the Holy Bible. Not so in Mormon literature.
The creeds were put in place to stop heresy and have followers know the truth. They still do that today. It’s a necessity with so many people doing their own will and calling it God’s way. If you don’t believe the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed, you need to examine yourself. They are there to be accepted, not debated. That was settled hundreds of years ago by those in close touch with God.
Jesus knows our hearts. That includes what we believe. The Bible is clear that you can’t work your way to heaven. In Matthew 11:28 Jesus said, “those who are really blessed are the ones who hear and obey God’s message!”
Comment by Glenn Wheeler on June 19, 2026 at 1:14 am
Skipper,
You need to recheck your scriptural reference. It’s not Matthew, it’s Luke. And besides, what you quote is not even what the manuscripts say. It is someone’s take, someone’s interpretation, of what the manuscripts say. Please don’t quote someone’s interpretation as Scripture itself!!! We don’t need to be dealing in someone’s opinion of what the biblical writers meant, we need to be dealing in what they actually wrote! Read a real Bible, not some idiot’s paraphrase!
Comment by Skipper on June 19, 2026 at 8:40 am
Glen, It is both Matthew and Luke. Pardon me for not including the version. It’s the CEV, Contemporary English Version. This quotation of Mathew 7:15 is verbatim. This is also found in Luke 6:37-42. This is a real translation and not someone’s opinion.
Maybe you would prefer the NIV, New International Version:
7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Ask, Seek, Knock
7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Comment by Qohelet on June 19, 2026 at 9:35 am
Skipper you’ve quoted so much I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make any more, but you made mine with Matthew 7:20.
Without question, there are Mormon missions, works, and actions bearing good fruit. A bad tree doesn’t bear good fruit.
Comment by Mike on June 19, 2026 at 10:41 am
Qohelet,
In whose opinion are Mormon missions, works, and actions bearing good fruit? If Mormons are not born again, nothing that they do qualifies as “good fruit” in the sight of God.
Reread Matthew 7:21-23. To paraphrase the old saying, “a whole lot of people are talking about heaven who are’nt necessarily going there.”
Comment by Skipper on June 19, 2026 at 10:49 am
Mormons do not believe in the authority of the Bible. They do not believe it is correctly translated. Therefore, when Jesus says something in the Bible, they may or may not believe him. Christians do believe in the authority of the Bible.
We must make judgments every day. We need to know who the False Teachers are. Otherwise we fall for anything. It’s not good fruit when you don’t believe Jesus! It’s not good fruit when you believe in more than one God. It’s not good fruit when you believe you can become a god yourself. These are false teachings and we are warned to beware of them.
Comment by Glenn Wheeler on June 19, 2026 at 11:35 am
Skipper,
You need to do some research and find out more about the mechanics of Bible translation. The CEV and the NIV are both highly interpretative “translations.” When you quote those, you are not quoting the Bible verbatim, you are quoting the translators verbatim. And there is a difference.
Comment by Skipper on June 19, 2026 at 1:59 pm
Glenn, if you have favorite translations that is fine with me. The CEV was translated directly from the original Greek. It had a goal of being reliable and readable. They tried to be faithful to the meaning of the original and read with ease and understanding by readers of all ages. It uses different language for big words like ‘propitiation’. which I think is a good idea.
Comment by Skipper on June 19, 2026 at 2:16 pm
To teach that the Bible is not reliable is bad fruit, very bad fruit. To teach one can become a god like God is incredibly bad fruit. The Bible tells us in numerous places that God is a jealous God. The Almighty God will not take this lightly.
Comment by Skipper on June 19, 2026 at 4:56 pm
Glenn, In translations, I know a literal word for word rendering of the Hebrew or Greek is only the first step. Any good scholar could do that. Next it must be considered “what do the words mean?” and what is the most accurate and natural way to express this meaning in the language of today? The Bible was written to be read and understood.
Comment by Glenn Wheeler on June 19, 2026 at 9:22 pm
Skipper,
Please take the advice I gave in my first comment and educate yourself about the mechanics of Bible translation. In the versions you’re using, that are supposed to be “readable,” you’re not getting what the authors wrote, you’re getting the translators’ interpretations; in other words, you’re getting what the translators feel the authors must have meant in order for the scriptures to jive with their certain version of Christianity. It’s not wrong to say that they translated to make the scriptures support their own preexisting beliefs.
Biblical scholars regard the two versions you cite as among the most interpretive versions. (I’m talking about biblical scholars, not preachers and pop-Christianity authors.). The fact that you don’t see that tells me you have only a surface understanding of Bible translation.
You cannot quote as scripture what is actually someone’s opinion about what a passage means. Wouldn’t you rather know what the authors actually wrote instead of someone’s opinions about what they think the authors meant?
Comment by Qohelet on June 19, 2026 at 10:04 pm
Mike, you seem to be suffering from your usual problem of thinking you speak for God. Read Job 38 a but more closely and be more humble.
Skipper, it’s not good fruit when you bear false witness about who Mormons are. They do not believe they can become gods. It’s a common slur used against them.
Glenn, I usually love you but I can’t agree with you on the NIV Bible… that’s a middle of the road translation that means to balance accuracy and readability. Of course translators have to make decisions, but as long as they’re making those decisions honestly and without bias, and their work isn’t radically different than that of other honest people, I don’t think we have to toss out their work.
Comment by Skipper on June 19, 2026 at 10:40 pm
Glenn, I disagree with your opinion on translations. You are welcome to say what your favorites are.
Oohelet, I have discussed this with Mormons, its not a slur, its true. Have you discussed this with them in person? They have even more shocking things they believe than this. You don’t have to take it from me. You can ask them.
Comment by Glenn Wheeler on June 19, 2026 at 10:56 pm
Qohelet,
They don’t make decisions without bias. They make decisions that support their preconceived notions. I will agree that NIV is middle of the road in that it is not as blatantly interpretative as paraphrases like The Message or The New English Bible. But it is still highly interpretative. It is translated to support a certain version of Christianity.
Comment by Skipper on June 19, 2026 at 11:26 pm
“As man now is, God once was:
“As God now is, man may be.”
Lorenzo Snow, 5th President of the LDS. Feeling that he had received “a sacred communication” that he should guard carefully, Lorenzo Snow did not teach the doctrine publicly until he knew that the Prophet Joseph Smith had taught it. Once he knew the doctrine was public knowledge, he testified of it frequently.
Comment by Skipper on June 19, 2026 at 11:30 pm
Glenn, I don’t understand why you don’t like modern translations. They are real. They are understandable without looking words from the King James. The Message and children’s bible are paraphrases. But have you read the Golden Children’s Bible? I like it too!
Comment by Glenn Wheeler on June 19, 2026 at 11:55 pm
Skipper,
In other words, you are not interested in what the biblical authors actually wrote, you want a false paraphrase that will support your preexisting beliefs. Glad we cleared that up!
Comment by Skipper on June 20, 2026 at 9:39 am
The point was Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets” and we must all decide (or judge) who they are. Relating back to “who amongst us is qualified to make that judgment?” We all are and it is imperative that we do so.
Glenn, I am most interested in what the biblical authors actually wrote. I don’t understand why you seem so down on some translations. Maybe you could help me understand.
You haven’t said which you approve of, so I will guess you like the New King James and don’ t like the ESV (English Standard Version) among others.
Oh, I love all the pictures in a good children’s bible. It brings to life for me and makes it so much quicker to grasp a number of Bible Stories, which I think is a good thing.
Comment by Mike on June 20, 2026 at 10:55 am
Qohelet,
“Mike, you seem to be suffering from your usual problem of thinking you speak for God.”
Show me where I am wrong. Is it wrong to point out that Mormons have strange, unBiblical beliefs?
No, I don’t speak for God. I merely let God speak for Himself through quotes from His word.
“Read Job 38 a but more closely and be more humble.” Maybe you should take your own advice. You do show some pride and arrogance.
Comment by Glenn Wheeler on June 21, 2026 at 12:16 am
Skipper,
From your inability to understand, I assume you are a resident in a facility. Therefore I will comment no further.
Comment by Qohelet on June 21, 2026 at 10:57 pm
I go back to my original point. Who amongst us are qualified to judge the entire LDS church?
We’re talking about an organization that donates more than a billion dollars a year to organizations like UNICEF that are clearly doing Christ’s work. And you guys are quibbling about obscure cosmology and quoting people that have been dead for more than a hundred years.
I’m not a Mormon and have serious disagreements with that faith which I’ve expressed to missionaries personally. But I don’t have the hubris to think I’m speaking for God. There’s clearly a lot of Mormons on this planet that have done much greater dead than I have and I hope and believe Jesus loves them for it.
Comment by Qohelet on June 21, 2026 at 11:24 pm
deeds, not dead. Sorry for the typo.