An increasingly influential and outspoken cohort of Christian post-liberals fault classical liberalism, with its stress on human rights like religious freedom and free speech, for societal decadence and decay. Roman Catholic scholars James Patterson and Thomas Howe, defenders of liberalism against illiberalism, recently interviewed Babylon Bee Managing Director Joel Berry to hear a Protestant response to postliberalism.
According to Berry, postliberalism especially coalesced after U.S. President Donald Trump was elected in 2016, thanks partly to support from Protestants and Evangelicals on the right. But once elected, they remained as dissidents rather than seeking to govern. Second, there are many factions on the right that oppose the left for different reasons and have different visions for America.
Amid these currents, Berry said, there is an emerging religious integralism; the integration of political authority and religious power. This is seen most notably among Catholics but also in the more Reformed circles of Protestantism, such as Calvinists, theonomists, and Christian nationalists. These groups are challenging the post-war narrative of America as the beacon of equality for all people.
“Things that we generally kind of accept as being part of the American ethos, they’re all being questioned now,” Berry noted.
Patterson responded that many Protestants view America as “my nation,” while Catholics, who’ve had a history of immigration, see America as a land ripe for cultivation after what they see as a failure of Protestant solutions.
Berry sees that Catholic perspective as part of the appeal.
“And I think that’s the big attraction that people have toward Catholicism right now is that our world is so chaotic,” Berry determined. “This post-truth, postmodern culture is so confusing and messed up.”
But Berry warned against the marriage between church and state, which has been historically problematic. And he noted that virtue cannot be imposed top-down but depends on a virtuous citizenry, which can only be developed bottom-up through long-term, Christian evangelism.
In response to Patterson’s question concerning the direction of Chrisitan politics before the upcoming midterm elections, Berry further noted there’s liberal/postliberal division within the Trump administration. The former wants to dismantle a lot of government bureaucracy, and the latter wants to use it to change society.
“As far as the fundamental debate…on the right…it’s like it’s anyone’s game right now. Online it seems like there’s so much momentum in the post-liberal right. But I think that might be a mirage…” Berry continued.
Howe voiced his concern about radicals such as “white nationalists” in the church, while Patterson responded by referring to the European example: “You go to Europe and it’s like well we had these established Catholic churches in these European countries and they’re all empty right? They’re museums now. And that’s the fruit of this kind of post-liberalism.”
Berry proposes that the best response is for churches to continue to teach sound biblical doctrine, which will encourage extremists to leave.
“As long as…these churches are remaining biblical and they’re teaching sound doctrine and they’re not afraid to tell the truth, I think a lot [or] some of these bad faith actors that have entered the church for the wrong reasons will find their way out,” Berry suggested.
He compared this situation to the parable of the sower, where some of the seeds won’t grow and will naturally decay, just like radicals in the church. At the same time, Berry acknowledged different challenges faced by Catholics and Protestants: “It’s maybe less of a problem on the Protestant side right now, more in kind of niche Reformed circles.” Berry further affirmed that spiritual revival and renewal in the church cannot be manufactured; it’s a work of God, and all we can do is earnestly pray and faithfully preach his Word.
Patterson critiqued those who embrace Christ for solely political gain: “It’s amazing how often when talking to folks that they’re sort of averse to the cross. The reason for the political solution is to avoid it, right? What if we can just have someone come down from the cross and command an army of angels to defeat our enemies right?”
Berry affirmed this sentiment, noting that Christianity is ultimately about taking up your cross, not using religion as a political totem. He compared these modern religious political activists to the zealots during Christ’s time, who wanted a political messiah to overthrow the Roman Empire.
Comment by Qohelet on September 19, 2025 at 10:31 pm
It’s nice to see conservative Christians admitting that post liberalism is incompatible with Christianity, but unfortunately no one can’t just sit and wait and think teaching “sound Biblical principles” will fix the problem. That didn’t work for Russell Moore, for example. Maybe instead of gloating week after week about mainline Protestantism’s decline, we could all do some ecumenical work to help return the nation to a place that cares about the physical well-being of all, as Jesus commanded us to do.
But seriously, Evangelical Christians have a responsibility to help fix this mess. Just like “mainstream Republicans,” they rode this tiger thinking they could control it, and now it’s eating them alive. They can have theological differences with liberal denominations. But they have a responsibility to Christ to admit that those differences are not worth embracing fascism over.
Comment by Mike on September 20, 2025 at 3:44 pm
“But they have a responsibility to Christ to admit that those differences are not worth embracing fascism over.” Keep it coming. The fascism is on the liberal side. But you continue to drink the kool aid.
Liberals will never stop until they control things. even if it ruins the nation in the process. Look what they have done to our schools. Look what they have done to our politics. Look what they tried to do to our military.
Liberalism is contrary to the Word of God. It is against God. It shakes its fist in God’s face, saying “there is no God”.
Comment by Mark on September 20, 2025 at 7:12 pm
Mike,
Liberals got women the right to vote. Liberals got African-Americans the right to vote. Liberals created Social Security and lifted millions of elderly people out of poverty. Liberals ended Segregation, liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, liberals created Medicare, liberals passed the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act. What did the conservatives do? They opposed every one of those programs – EVERY ONE! So when you try to hurl that word ‘liberal’ at my feet as if it were something dirty, something to run away from, something that I should be ashamed of, it won’t work. Because I will pick up that label and I will wear it as a badge of honor.
Comment by Td on September 20, 2025 at 10:43 pm
I have tried to make sense of this article, and i just can’t squeeze my brain around it. Liberal, post liberal- what does this even mean? I don’t get it. If this is what mainline denominations are talking about, then that’s enough proof that they have missed the gospel and have very little to offer the world. Please return to the faith as proclaimed by jesus and his apostles.
Comment by Qohelet on September 23, 2025 at 7:49 am
Td this isn’t what we’re talking about in mainline churches. These are right wing Christians trying to make sense of how Christian Nationalism got out of control. The answer is sheer cowardice. It was easy to get the faithful in line on abortion and LGBTQ issues when those who would want to overturn democracy were helping, so Evangelical Christians ignored things like questioning the Sermon on the Mount. Now we have a government that in all public policy does the opposite of Jesus’s commands and they’re washing their hands like Pilate.
I believe in the wall between church and state, but I almost hope that Texas gets to hang it’s unBiblical 22 commandments posters. Maybe if kids start asking “what does it mean to bear false witness” they’ll turn out better than their parents did.
Comment by Ken MacAlister on September 23, 2025 at 1:57 pm
Mark, the problem is people can’t tell the difference between a liberal & a leftist. I won’t deny the good classical liberals have done. Leftists are those causing division & strife. Unfortunately for years now they’ve been hiding behind the term liberal when there is nothing liberal about them. Until people know the difference between a liberal & a leftist liberals & conservatives will continue to shout past each other & call each other names. It’s amazing what people can do when they change the meaning of words (liberal) to cover up something (leftism) they know the public wants no part of.