Some young people identifying as the “Reconquista” are advocating the reclamation of Mainline Protestantism for theological orthodoxy through their active witness and resistance. The most prominent online reconquistador is a college student and Presbyterian Church (USA) worshiper who operates as “Redeemed Zoomer,” with over 350,000 YouTube followers. I’m skeptical of their project but appreciate their youthful energy. You’ll enjoy my chat with him.
Mark Tooley: This is Mark Tooley, President of the Institute on Religion & Democracy with the delightful opportunity to converse with the online personage known as Redeemed Zoomer, whom I understand to be a worshiper within the Presbyterian Church (USA). Among other “reconquistadors,” he advocates for the reclamation of historically more liberal Mainline denominations that they might be brought back to theological orthodoxy.
Redeemed Zoomer has a popular online following, he’s the most prominent to my knowledge of all the reconquistadors. So, Redeemed Zoomer, tell us a little bit more about yourself.
Redeemed Zoomer: Thank you for having me on the show. I’m a college student in real life but I do a lot of evangelism online and I’m an activist, like you said, for reformation in the mainline Protestant churches. I’m a YouTuber, I’m a Presbyterian like you said, and I started a nonprofit called Presbyterians for the Kingdom as part of the broader Reconquista movement.
The goal of Presbyterians for the Kingdom is to promote good theology in denominations that do not have good theology these days, to try and restore the beliefs that these denominations were founded upon.
MT: You live in an East Coast city, I believe?
RZ: I’m originally from New York. When I’m at my university, I’m in Texas, but I’m originally from New York.
MT: Have you found a Presbyterian Church USA congregation where you can worship faithfully?
RZ: Yes, so my home church it’s got some problems with liberalism, but at least it still preaches the gospel. The problem is many PCUSA churches literally do not believe the gospel at all anymore. They do not believe the Bible is the Word of God. Some of them don’t even believe God is something that’s actually real. They think God is just a metaphor for social justice and stuff. Those are the things we need to address first.
Of course, there is a problem when churches preach political and social wokeness. That is something we are opposed to, but a much bigger problem is when churches starve their congregations of the saving gospel. That is problem number one for us.
MT: It’s very unusual of course for many people under the age of 50 to have any interest in denominations much less the historic Mainline Protestant denominations. What specifically provoked your personal interest in being part of the Presbyterian Church USA?
RZ: My initial draw to the PCUSA was simply because it was a local church near me and the summer camp where I converted to Christianity was run by someone who was a member of the PCUSA. So I just had some connections to that church but when I compared it to other non- denominational churches that a lot of people in my generation go to, I found that it was much more rich and historically rooted in those churches. I came to the conclusion that the reason why Christianity is losing so much ground in the West – and has been for the past 100 years – is because the institutional churches have been getting weaker as these disunited, disorganized non-denominational churches have been getting stronger.
I think if we’re going to see a revival of Christianity it needs to be from within the historic established institutional churches rather than trying to split off and start brand new churches.
MT: Of course you appreciate tradition, you appreciate liturgy, you appreciate traditional hymns, you appreciate the aesthetics of the beautiful old sanctuaries built by Mainline protestantism.
RZ: Yeah.
MT: The Reconquista movement, how many are there of you?
RZ: There are over 2,000 Mainline Protestants that are part of our movement in some way. Most of them are young but there are some older people. There are some Gen X and baby boomer pastors who are part of our movement either publicly or privately. It’s pastors are usually part of our movement privately because they could be canceled by their bishops if they’re too public about it. But, yeah, there’s a lot of people that are part of our movement. A lot of people are on our online community. We have a Discord community where faithful orthodox Mainline Protestants can congregate.
MT: So you are Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians. Any other groups represented?
RZ: The RCA, the Reformed Church in America, and American Baptist Churches USA. The Seven Sisters of the Mainline. The denominations that are part of Reconquista are really any denomination that is sort of in communion with these broadly liberal Mainline churches because they all share resources, share pastors, so retaking one sort of means retaking all of them and losing one sort of means losing all of them because they’re all really in communion.
MT: Now others would say people, individuals, and groups spent decades trying to return the mainline Protestant denominations to orthodoxy dating all the way back to the 1920s but certainly many more recent movements in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s. All of these denominations have officially liberalized on sexuality except for the United Methodists which will likely do so in May of this year. I don’t think the American Baptist have officially, maybe they have de facto have.
What do you say to the old-timers who have tried to renew these denominations? What new formula do you propose that will give you success that failed for them?
RZ: It’s simple: the answer is not running away. Because, when you look at these splits, when you look at these conflicts between the progressives and the conservatives, the conservatives were always very quick to give up the fight, much more quick to give up the fight than the progress. The recent formation of the Global Methodist Church is a very good example of this, where the conservatives won the vote and left. Yes, you could say they had reasons for leaving, but when the progressives lost the vote they didn’t leave. They kept fighting harder and harder.
Generally in these conflicts the progressive sides have always been a lot more persistent, a lot more resilient, a lot more willing to keep fighting even after they lost battles. So, generally what has happened is most of the time when conservatives have split off it has been not because they had to but because they anticipated future Progressive victories.
For example, the PCA, the largest conservative Presbyterian denomination, they split from the southern Mainline Presbyterian Church not because they had to, not because they were forced out, but because they were worried that the Southern church might unite with the more liberal Northern church. Now of course that did happen probably because the conservatives all left. But it’s usually conservatives: they go in starting with a retreatist mindset. They’re like “we’ll try to change some things, if that doesn’t work we’re out of here.” That was the case with J. Gresham Machen who did try to reform Princeton. But, even before he got kicked out, he said that if we can’t get rid of these liberals we have to leave.
So the progressives win because they have a persistent mindset. They have a fighting mindset. They have a conquistador mindset, and conservatives lose because they have a retreatist mindset. They have a “giving up” mindset. We need to abandon the retreat mindset because retreatism doesn’t just apply to the church. Retreatism is the reason why the culture keeps drifting to the left, because people who are not on the left keep retreating. They retreat from mainstream universities, mainstream cities, mainstream everything. And they always try to start something on the side. But we need to reverse the retreatist mindset and shift to a Reconquista mindset.
MT: There are there enough reconquistadors to engage in this long-term process, across potentially several decades, to make it work?
RZ: The math checks out because there are far more conservative Christians than Progressive Christians. If you take the total number of Christians who are active in churches, if every single non-denominational Christian started attending Mainline Protestant churches, the mainlines would be completely taken over within a year. Because liberal Christians don’t care about going to church. Liberal Christianity never lasts very long and that’s why, even within Mainline churches, the conservative congregations keep growing and the progressive ones keep shrinking.
The task of Reconquista is really just convincing people in conservative groups and conservative denominations that they need to return to the mainline, that they need to come back into the fold. If we can do that, then their victory is mathematically guaranteed.
MT: Will it not be difficult for some of the Reconquistadors, especially as they marry and have children and want sound Christian education for those children, if they’re in a Mainline Protestant denomination or congregation that lacks children, has no programs for children, or those programs are more progressive, won’t they be tempted to give up on the Reconquista?
RZ: That’s a very big issue. Yeah, the Reconquista to be successful and for people who have a family to be involved in it will require conservatives making subcultures. It’ll require making conservative subgroups whether it’s joining conservative churches in the mainline because there are lots of very active, vibrant, healthy conservative churches in the mainline – that’s the first strategy. If that’s not possible, it’s possible for groups of families within a more lukewarm church to organize a Bible study to teach their kids together. There are many possibilities. It’s not going to work if you try to send individuals in to try and transform a church, because no one can stand alone. That’s why Jesus sent out the disciples two by two. You have to send in groups and, hopefully, most of the Reconquista will not be about trying to send people into progressive congregations to change the congregation. It will really just be to bolster the existing conservative congregations knowing that they’re going to outlast their progressive counterparts.
If there’s a local Mainline congregation that’s already celebrating same-sex rites, for example, you would not join that congregation. I wouldn’t advocate people join that one. No, if someone’s already a member of one of those congregations, and they think they can still have a good impact, I’d say stay by all means. But, reconquista does not advise anyone to join those churches. Reconquista only advises people to join conservative churches within the mainline because those are the only ones that are going to be left in 30 years.
The mainline is basically a hollowing out tree, so if we just inject a bunch of faithful young Christians now, within a generation they’re going to be the only ones left mathematically. It’s a foolproof plan. The only question is: are people willing to do it?
MT: You have a very large social media following I believe. Your YouTube followers number over 200,000?
RZ: 350,000.
MT: 350,000 is an amazing number. I’m guessing the vast majority of these people are not themselves in Mainline churches, but actually cheerleaders from Evangelical churches? What is your sense?
RZ: Evangelical churches, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox. The majority of my followers are not Mainline Protestant but a lot of people have joined Mainline Protestant churches because of my videos.
So, I would encourage people, especially a lot of young people, [who] are kind of floating between denominations. They’re not really committed to anything. So, I would take those people and say, “why not join the mainline?” There’s a movement starting. It can be something to fight for. A lot of young men want something to fight for. There aren’t many Mainline Protestants among my followers, but I’m kind of glad because that means there’s a lot of room to get more people into the mainline.
MT: Mainline Protestantism obviously played an enormous role in building and shaping American democracy, serving as the mediating structures in America’s Civil Society. Do you want to perpetuate that Mainline Protestant tradition, or do you have an alternative political role in mind for a reconquista Mainline Protestantism?
RZ: Political theory is not my specialty. I don’t see why it shouldn’t continue. I think that America was one of the most successful societies ever and it was founded upon the Mainline church. I don’t think you can restore a culture without restoring the Church it was founded upon, so I definitely affirm the necessity of restoring the Mainline churches for restoring any sort of identity to American culture. Now, what would the ideal political system look like after a successful reconquest of the culture? That I don’t know. I’ll leave that up to other people to decide.
MT: Mr. Redeemed Zoomer, thank you very much for this introduction to your work. I wish you well and look forward to checking in with you maybe every five years to see how the Reconquista is coming along. This is Mark Tooley, President of the Institute on Religion & Democracy. Thank you for listening.
Comment by MikeB on March 21, 2024 at 8:11 pm
I suspect 3 possibilities
1. Eventually the seminaries will see the rising up of counter cultural students who think it is cool and edgy to believe there is a God.
2. The hard core heretics in the mainline will die out, their replacements won’t fight as hard to maintain their artificial power base.
3. Most of the churches will get so small as people die off that it would only take a small number of activists to force bishops who couldn’t care less to cower…
Comment by MJ on March 21, 2024 at 11:19 pm
If the mainline churches are to be restored to orthodox faith, it will be a long project of the next several generations. I wish him well in this endeavor. Come Holy Spirit Come.
Comment by Daniel on March 23, 2024 at 2:18 pm
Redeemed Zoomer is correct that the progressives are more willing to fight to the last to get their way. And they turn around any similar attempt by orthodox Christians to fight back by saying that the orthodox Christians are not loving, being judgmental, and missing the love of Jesus for all persons. So, the progressives have redefined traditional terms to be used against anyone who opposes them. This is a traditional Marxist tactic and has been very effective in the progressive takeover of the mainline denominations.
Comment by David on March 25, 2024 at 10:56 am
I discovered Redeemed Zoomer (aka Richard Ackerman) from a young man whom I have been informally mentoring. I’ve listened to some of his YouTube videos and find his ambitions laudable for the most part, but I am also aware from my own experience that youthful idealism is usually accompanied by a measure of youthful naïveté. It would be nice to think that we can reclaim the historic denominations by simply waiting out the heterodox. But in the meantime we have to raise our children in the faith and trust them to other church members who may simply follow the faux-redemptive narratives of the larger culture.
It was not that long ago that confessional Catholics assumed that, with John Paul II in the papal office, the bishops and cardinals he appointed would be orthodox, while the remaining geriatric liberals would die off, leaving the church of the future in a better place. Not quite 20 years after his passing, it is evident that this is not what happened. I doubt we can expect much better from mainline Protestantism, even if a substantial body of members signed on to the reconquista.
Still, I wish them well and pray that God will allow their efforts to bear some fruit.
Comment by Cal on March 26, 2024 at 1:17 am
Yes, the progs tenaciously fight; like rabid dogs they fight without stopping. Not sure that is something to admire or emulate. I rather think it’s something to stay far away from.
Comment by Wayne on March 29, 2024 at 11:31 pm
I recently found RZ on Youtube in recommended videos. He is interesting to listen to and I am awed by his ambitious plans to retake mainline churches. Like others noted, I am somewhat skeptical, but do wish him well as this will be no easy task. Liberalism crept into mainline churches one hundred years ago and its tentacles have spread its roots deep into these churches, institutions, and seminaries. If the Reconquistas could somehow infiltrate the denominational seminaries, that would help to make some headway. Sadly, the seminaries have churned out young pastors who are indoctrinated in liberalism and take this spiritual foundation to their new assignments. The current pockets of conservatism within the mainline, are like bastions against the liberal Mongrel hordes. How long they can keep our the hordes is another story. Godspeed RZ!