On June 20, 2017, I had the privilege of interviewing Nikki Toyama-Szeto. Toyama-Szeto is the new Executive Director for Evangelicals for Social Action, bringing with her experience from serving with International Justice Mission and InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. Below is my interview with her edited lightly for grammar and readability.
Welch: Thank you for taking the time to talk with the Institute on Religion and Democracy. As the new incoming Executive Director of Evangelicals for Social Action, to start, can you please begin by explaining how you define social justice?
Toyama-Szeto: When I think about the Gospel, I think about that the Gospel is both something proclaimed and demonstrated. I think of verbal Evangelism as the proclamation side of the Gospel and social justice is the demonstration of the power of the gospel in real life. That’s one way to talk about social justice. The other way I would talk about social justice is discipleship lived out in public space and a faith that intersects with the realities of the world. That’s how I think about social justice.
Welch: So many of my peers, Millennials, view social justice advocacy as Facebook pronouncements and retweets on Twitter. How do you suggest Christians move away from mere rhetoric on social media to more thoughtfully addressing ongoing human rights violations?
Toyama-Szeto: That’s such a great question. I think that it starts with awareness. That’s when I think of the Facebook and social media activism. There have been some great parodies engaging on their sofa through social media, but I think to call that social justice, it is actually more about awareness and learning and education. So I’m glad that people start there and I think that is fabulous, but I think that it is a starting point for folks.
I do feel like as we do a deep dive into Scripture and think about what it means to follow Jesus faithfully in our times and our places, our theological conviction with regards to justice and a commitment to live that out really gets integrated into our whole discipleship. I feel like it affects your lifestyle and the choices that you do have control over. It affects your voice in the ways that you show up and are present to everyday justice issues. There are tons of them just in our own neighborhoods.
I think as Americans, we have a responsibility to participate in the Global Church and what is going on there. And to really realize how much both we can learn from the Global Church, but also how much we need to see our kinship around the world.
Welch: We often see political partisanship—on both the religious right and progressive left—as a driving force behind social action. How do you recommend Christians and parachurch advocacy agencies avoid these political rhetoric pitfalls?
Toyama-Szeto: Absolutely. What I’m so concerned about is this continuing demonizing of the other side. Why I’m grateful for ESA is that I do feel like it’s vesry committed to strengthening the Church as a prophetic presence in society. We feel that transformation does not only just come through change in the government, or political action. We believe that engaging with government structures, absolutely, discipleship should happen in every way of life, but we also feel like change can come through society and engaging with society as well as working with the Church.
You have lots of different organizations that focus just on the Church, or just on cultural change in society, or just on political change. What I love about ESA’s approach is that it is very much a do what you can in the place that you are, and that you should live out your discipleship in all spheres of life.
So one of the things I feel is very important is the fostering of conversation of people with diverse points of view, but a common allegiance to Jesus. I think when you have a common allegiance to following the teachings of Christ, but you’ve come to different political conclusions, then we should hold some of those conclusions with an open hand and allow God to use the broader community to – in some sense – sharpen what it is we are thinking. ESA is good about creating safe spaces for really uncomfortable conversations and trying to help different sides talk to each other.
Welch: At times Christian social justice efforts overlook the Persecuted Church abroad in favor of more trendy hot topics and headline-grabbing issues like same-sex marriage or abortion. How do you plan to highlight the injustices against the Church abroad and advocate for the Persecuted Church as part of Evangelical social action?
Toyama-Szeto: That’s actually one of the main things that I feel a part of what I hope will be true for ESA in this next season. I think ESA’s work has been deep and good in the U.S. context, it also has a historical engagement with global justice issues. Just from my own story, a lot of what I understand about God’s heart and orientation towards people on the margins comes from the deep study of Luke as well as my experiences working in some communities outside of Nairobi. Different Christians are working in some of these very fragile communities. Americans have so, so much to learn about the way that the Church is engaging, or the way that Christians are engaging, with justice issues globally. So that’s what I hope ESA will deepen on, both participating as part of adding our voice to the global church’s voice on things that are facing women and children, the exploitation, some of the abuse, some of the violence they are facing, Christian minority groups in different areas. I think that all of that’s really important and I’m hoping that ESA can be a great vehicle to help grow both awareness as well as true and meaningful engagement on some of those issues.
Welch: What other issues do you hope to see Evangelicals take action on?
Toyama-Szeto: I don’t think so much issues as I hope that Evangelicals will take a deep dive into Scripture and see how that informs their engagement with injustice. One of the things that I would say is in some ways justice can be a little bit trendy, but I’ve sort of been surprised at how much strategies or priorities can be more culturally informed or more socially informed versus a really true, reliable, and deep grounding about fighting injustice that is informed by Scripture. So I think trying to help give different communities of people a deeper dive, to understand how Scripture informs how they should approach justice issues, how does it inform the message that they use, the place that they are called to occupy, these sorts of things. What I really want, too, is for people to see that engagement in justice is a way that God transforms people and societies. So it’s not just about what people can accomplish, it’s about the work that God is doing both in people as well as in societies.
Welch: Some young Evangelicals shy away from the social issues associated with the culture wars of the Religious Right, like abortion for example. But what of social justice for the unborn? Reportedly nine in 10 pregnancies where the child is diagnosed with a disability such asdown syndrome is terminated. In addition, sex-selection targets girls across the globe. How can we encourage young Evangelicals to maintain a pro-life ethic without undermining justice for the unborn?
Toyama-Szeto: I think that there is a way that a lot of these different issues have become more political, when they really emerged from both a moral posture and a theological conviction. I feel like that has also happened actually with the term “Evangelical.” I feel like even “Evangelical,” I mean for people not within the community, has become a political term, and it talks about people’s postures and thoughts on different social issues and that sort of a thing. So I think that there is a way to reengage people by sidestepping, not going straight to the front door which is a political door. All of the words that are used for that are all political rhetoric, and it makes people feel like “Oh, if I say that then I have to believe this, this, and that.” And I think that that’s not really true.,
Also, that’s not really great for Millennials. Nobody likes to be put into a box and say this is what you believe and these are all of the other things that you need to believe.
So I think a creative and imaginative way of helping people go deep in Scripture and in their commitment is trying to understanding how that intersects with other issues of the world. One thing I love is this program that we do called CreatureKind, and it talks about anti-animal cruelty, particularly in the food chain, and it’s a way to really engage a pro-life conversation. Why isn’t the Church on the forefront of making sure that our animal food source chains are humanely done? That doesn’t make sense because that’s actually a consistent application of a pro-life ethic. So reimagining ways to create moments for people to deal with depressing issues, without dictating for people what their positions ought to be.
Welch: As incoming Executive Director, what is your overall hope and vision for the direction of Evangelicals for Social Action?
Toyama-Szeto: ESA has this amazing history of being a catalyst for helping people recognize that following Jesus is not just something you on Sundays, but it also affects all of these other areas of your life. How do you live out your faith in a public space?
When ESA started, it was sort of a like the new kid on the block. I mean, nobody would cite Micah 6:8 as something that was part of the mission statement for the organization, but I think today there is a flourishing of lots of different folks who are passionate about different issues and sometimes informed by their faith of how they’re doing that. What I’m trying to think about for ESA is what we can do to be most helpful for the thing that God seems to be doing in this time. I think that there’s a way God is using justice to awaken communities and point them to Himself.
For the next few months, part of what I’m going to try to do is to survey the landscape and see the strengths of what is going on, and perhaps the other places ESA can step in. My guess is that some of the places ESA can step in is theological strengthening and education. My other guess is that ESA can be a very helpful voice in trying to bring very different sides together for hopefully transformative dialogue. I don’t want to change anybody’s mind, but I want people to have meaningful interactions with the other side, because I feel like Christians have to think Christian first. Are you this political party first, or are you about this issue first?
I just look at the current level of debate right now, it dehumanizes people, and actually we are all created in the image of God. So how can we create spaces for people to respectfully disagree or come to different conclusions but also recognize the made-in-the-image-of-Godness of Christians that are present in these other spaces. So that’s a little bit of a guess on what I think the next season is about.
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