Many United Methodists in West Virginia’s Little Kanawha District were devastated by the changes made at this year’s General Conference. Local United Methodist leadership has done little to ease this pain.
“I’ll go to church, but I’ll never join a church again” should be words that break the heart of any pastor. Unfortunately, I’ve heard this statement from multiple people in the district. It should concern District Superintendent Loretta Isaiah, but instead, she seems focused on damage control rather than pastoral care, as her actions have displayed since General Conference took place April 23 – May 3 in Charlotte, North Carolina.
West Virginia has seen a relatively small number of United Methodist churches disaffiliate. Many came to regret this after the General Conference made sweeping changes, most notably the church’s stance on marriage. Laity in Isaiah’s district report that potentially as many as 10 churches will exit, close, or see a plurality of congregants leave. Some have gone so far as to already remove the word “United” from their street and building signs. At least one has closed, and another has had a large percentage of congregants depart to launch a new Global Methodist church plant.
In response to these concerns, Isaiah initially held meetings at select churches alongside two WV Conference delegates to General Conference. Isaiah framed the meetings as to correct and provide accurate information about what transpired at General Conference.
Despite this claim, congregants from neighboring Methodist churches were discouraged from attending the meetings. This seems odd if the idea was to present accurate information to as many people as possible. Isaiah even went so far as to direct one pastor to not speak further to her own congregation about changes initiated at General Conference. Pressed about this by upset congregants at the meeting she hosted at the church the pastor was serving at, Stout Memorial, Isaiah stated that she was acting out of concern for the pastor. Days later, Isaiah “recommended” that the pastor take a multi week “renewal leave.”
The meetings themselves were neither helpful nor informative. Attendees who spoke with IRD felt that their concerns were not taken seriously and that Isaiah hid behind conference bureaucracy to keep from directly addressing concerns. Notably, Isaiah insisted during the meeting at Stout Memorial that the Staff Pastor Parish Relations Committees (SPPR) of churches would be able to request not to have practicing homosexual clergy as pastors of their churches. However, even though SPPR Committees can make recommendations for qualities in pastors, the District Superintendent isn’t required to heed those recommendations, and often can’t due to clergy shortages.
One former SPPR chair from another church that attended the meeting at Stout Memorial felt this answer was disingenuous and was contrary to what their church had been told in past SPPR meetings with the DS when they had raised concerns about pastoral appointments. This SPPR chair stated that she and other laity felt “betrayed” by the conference and were disappointed with Isaiah’s responses to their questions.
When asked why changes made to the Discipline came as a shock to so many and why their pastors had not informed them of the possibility that they would occur, Isaiah replied that the information had been publicly available. This doesn’t answer the question of why the conference didn’t actively work to make laity aware of the potential changes. It also does not answer why clergy, according to the laity I interviewed in the district, repeatedly told their congregants that the changes were unlikely and that they should wait until after General Conference to make a decision about leaving the UMC. Unfortunately, many congregants trusted their clergy, and the exit window specified in the Discipline is now closed.
Isaiah also took a six-week absence, seemingly in hopes that pushback would dissipate. That does not seem to be the case. The DS has lost several clergy and laity who will most likely leave soon alongside those that feel they cannot remain within the UMC.
Just before her leave, Isaiah removed two pastors who had given notice that they would step down by Labor Day. They did this to allow time for their congregations either to have a new pastor appointed or, in the case of one church that was closing, to allow the congregation to have a pastor until they closed at the end of August. This second church spent its last month and a half without pastoral care. Furthermore, Isaiah forced the “exigent circumstance closure” of this church in its final week, informing the leadership of the church that she would allow the congregation to meet for its final service. It’s an ugly way to close a church and hard on congregants, some of whom had been members for more than 80 years.
One former church trustee characterized Isaiah’s behavior as, “unhelpful, petty, and vindictive.”
This is disappointing behavior from senior clergy. It displays both lack of pastoral concern and inability to recognize that many congregants in the district feel betrayed by church leadership. Rather than accomplishing damage control, it seems to be ensuring that Isaiah will soon find herself superintending a significantly smaller district. It is certainly out of step with the Wesleyan concern to “do no harm.”
The District Office did not return a request for comment.
Comment by Tim Ware on August 30, 2024 at 8:33 am
So why should anyone be surprised at stuff like this? I’m not even a Methodist, but it has been clear to me for years that this is the way things operated. How can people in the pews be so blind and act so surprised?
Comment by Tim Mc on August 30, 2024 at 11:21 am
Quote: How can people in the pews be so blind and act so surprised?
Because the people in the pews, trust their Pastors, District Superintendents and Pastors to be honest and truthful and Christians. The people in the pews come to church to worship and don’t pay attention to what is happening in the larger world wide church. They pay no attention to what is going on outside of their own church.
I personally was the same. Today, I see the Bishops, District Superintendents and Pastors as folks who like their big paychecks more than they love the Bible. They don’t want churches to leave, because that will cause them to lose money and people in the pews.
The United Methodist Church is just like the box stores where it is all about numbers and money.
Show me a Pastor, Bishop or DS in the United Methodists Church today, who gives away 90% of his income like John Wesley?
God help us. We have lost the simplicity of the Gospel message.
Comment by Aaron Wilson on August 30, 2024 at 12:04 pm
By this she’ll all men know that you are my Is disciples by the love you have one to another Is the absence of it is shocking it is sad
Comment by Thomas on August 30, 2024 at 12:30 pm
“When asked why changes made to the Discipline came as a shock to so many and why their pastors had not informed them of the possibility that they would occur, Isaiah replied that the information had been publicly available. ”
I must admit I’m surprised. I’m a complete outsider myself and I knew what would happen.
Comment by Sarah Hearn-vonFoerster on August 30, 2024 at 2:00 pm
It appears to me , as a very long, lifelong Methodist, that these contributing comments are indicative of the Puritan, not the liberal Methodists of John Wesley. Those staunch souls who took on the English Parliament and helped to win the battle against slavery in all British colonies. (Unfortunately, the American colonies had just won their independence , so slavery continued. ) Good riddance to the intolerance. Jesus never used the word “except” , that is recorded
Comment by Steve on August 30, 2024 at 3:24 pm
How can anybody say there is no record of Jesus using the word “except” considering the following:
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
People in the article were forced out of their church. “Good riddance” is a nasty thing for anybody to say under any circumstances, much less these. Now there’s something Jesus presumably never said.
Comment by Steve on August 30, 2024 at 4:09 pm
Here’s another one:
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good- except God alone.” (Luke 18:19)
Comment by Steve on August 30, 2024 at 4:11 pm
John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Comment by Steve on August 30, 2024 at 4:12 pm
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Comment by Steve on August 30, 2024 at 4:13 pm
John 4:48
Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Comment by Steve on August 30, 2024 at 4:14 pm
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Comment by Steve on August 30, 2024 at 4:15 pm
John 6:53
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Comment by Douglas E Ehrhardt on August 30, 2024 at 4:41 pm
Thanks Steve, I know some life long Methodists and the Word of God is not too important. No wonder the leftist humanists have taken over.
Comment by George on August 30, 2024 at 7:13 pm
Why are we so surprised when the unelected district superintendents and the unelected bishops treat the rank and file church members with such disregard? All we are to them are a source for apportionments, AKA revenue sources. We are Global now but little has changed. Came to church one Sunday and found our pastor had been transferred a few miles up the road. A wonderful preacher but I guess he failed to kiss someone’s ring. We were never given an explanation. His new church loves him. We could take a few lessons from the Baptists. The local church picks their pastor. They use the Bible as their guide.
If things don’t work out, it’s on them; not some unknown entity. Other than not seeing rainbow flags hanging around the sanctuary, I have not seen much difference since we made the move to be Global. We NEVER get briefed on what’s going on and where we are headed. We paid the ransom so we could keep our property and now we are broke. Darn shame.
Comment by Diane on August 30, 2024 at 10:28 pm
I’m another non-United Methodist, a layperson, and I knew what was going on, changes being made. Lay people should take some initiative, stop whining others didn’t tell them. It was all over the news. My smalltown newspaper was highly informative.
Comment by Gary Bebop on August 31, 2024 at 12:07 am
It’s a bubble world. People live in local bubbles. They only believe the bubble-generated narrative. There are still many Methodists who know “zilch” about disaffiliation as a global phenomenon. They are not curious about reality outside their bubble.
Comment by Tim on August 31, 2024 at 7:35 am
Like much material coming from the WCA side, this article has few details and lots of innuendo. That deliberately makes it hard to defend DS Isaiah. Nevertheless, I will attempt to anyway, because this seems like a hit job to me.
As I read it, the specific allegations are
1.) Churches weren’t properly informed of the deadline for disaffiliation and told to wait and see what General Conference does.
2.) The DS wanted to have a meeting with one specific church without outsiders being present
3.) The DS put a pastor on a mental-health leave of absence and took one herself
4.) The DS did not allow pastors who had told her of her intent to withdraw to continue to serve after that notice, including on a church that was closing.
Here are my responses
1.) I find this very hard to believe. At the time the withdrawal process was happening, I was no longer United Methodist because I’d left in sadness about our treatment of LGBTQ people a few years before. That said, I knew exactly what was going on because it was extensively covered in the official church press, the wider Christian press in general, and even local newspapers across the country. I was able to see enough just by looking at my general new sources to learn it was time to come back. If there’s any truth to this allegation, I suspect churches that couldn’t afford to pay their obligations required to dissafiliate under the process that ended in 2023 were told something like “nothing happens until it does, don’t make a decision until you need to.” There’s no dishonesty there because they couldn’t have used the 2023 process anyway.
2.) This sounds like a church that was making big decisions amongst its own membership. It’s entirely appropriate that this meeting was for a single church. If other churches need similar meetings, I’m sure the DS is available. It’s reasonable that a church struggling with existential questions be left alone to decide them without outside agitators present.
3.) The last 20 years have been traumatic. People who feel genuinely called by God to serve have had their motives viciously attacked and endured the loss of cherished relationships. If clergy need time to process this profound loss, that’s reasonable. I know a DS in a different state who moved a middle of the road even keel minister because the church they served in was so divided and unpleasant towards each other it was causing the pastor’s blood pressure to skyrocket. Mental health needs to be taken seriously.
4.) This is Book of Discipline Paragraph 360.4. If you tell the church you’re withdrawing, the effective date is the date of the letter and you’re no longer UMC clergy and thus unable to preach any longer. Several General Conferences specifically warn about this on their Withdrawal FAQ pages and caution anyone leaving not to submit a letter until they’re really ready to go
Comment by Amor Dei on August 31, 2024 at 9:28 am
Sorry, Tim. But since you have not been in the fold for some time you don’t actually know what happened. I can tell you that the Conference sent Melissa Shortridge to churches to talk them into staying with hopes that GC would creat an easier exit pathway or at the very least maintain the closure and disaffiliation options. Churches specifically brought up the end of disafilliation at the end of 2023 and they were told that it was false information.
Comment by Rich Griffith on August 31, 2024 at 11:16 am
Why are we surprised that ecclesiastical leaders act unethical and underhanded when they already support, and justify, immorality? The Northeast Georgia UMC Conference explicitly told clergy to not “discuss the issues” with their congregations and conservative clergy were often silenced by any number of unethical practices and mandates. Then, when churches brought a lawsuit, the Conference finally allowed churches to disaffiliate, but churches who were more conservative leaning were not given information from their progressive Pastors on how to properly go about disaffiliation and most progressive Pastors simply “passed the buck” causing many who were on the border to not vote for disaffiliation. When they “missed the deadline”, Conferences started going even further with their immorality with changing the Book of Discipline in regard to marriage and even infidelity on the part of clergy. By this time, it was “too late” for on the line churches to vote to disaffiliate – even after more egregious sexual practices became protected. Plain and simple: The UMC leadership has been siding with Nero.
Comment by Roger on August 31, 2024 at 6:08 pm
The Leadership of the United Methodist Church over a long period of time became LGBTQ people, and Pastors supported these Progressive ideas and changes. They were not transparent with the Pew People. They kept the idea of a solution of compromise of the Progressives and Traditional to happen at the next GC. DS would intimidate Pastors to make them comply. DS people would when confronted by SPPR laity people in meetings, would often say, we will send you a Woman Pastor. Over the years, the balance of Power in key Committees, etc. were Progressives. The United Methodist Church progressive outcome would have happened sooner, if it had not been for the African contingent. The Global Board of Church & Society was a big element in taking over the United Methodist Church to the now Progressive State. Accountability was not enforced by using the BoD, etc. Also the Bishops became Progressive and less Traditional. Outside of Church Money supported many Progressive changes. Also Many in the Pew did not know how the Church was Administrated. Change became the only Solution.
Comment by Pudentiana on September 2, 2024 at 2:24 pm
After decades trying to reform the UMC I learned the dirty little secret. The plan was always to fleece the flock.
Comment by Vicki Meisterhans on September 2, 2024 at 3:57 pm
Our church put together a prayer covenant group to pray, study, research what was happening at Gen Conf. in May 2024. In addition, our SPPR person did a lot of research, our church had a series of meetings to inform our congregation on what was happening behind the scenes and what to expect. Went so far as having Melissa Shortridge from WV Conf come and give us the process and numbers so we could make an informed decision. When the Dist Supt (Loretta Isaiah) found out, she came and strongly encouraged us to “wait and see”…..our Interim Pastor suggested the same (at her suggestion I believe)……we waited, exactly what we thought would happen did……She met with us again to tell us there was no way out. Discussion was heated at times, the majority of our congregation is very conservative and believe the Bible is clear on what we are, and are not, to do!! As a result, 40 people have left and are finding new places to worship! It appears the WV Conf does not care who walks!! They could have made a “way out” for those who feel the changes made at Gen Conf were wrong, chose to slam the door!! I watched ALL of UMC Gen Conf., I was appalled and disgusted at Bishop’s sermons and the fact many of them participated in the pro-Palestinian protest outside the venue! I feel like I didn’t leave the UMC, the UMC left me!
Comment by MikeB on September 2, 2024 at 4:30 pm
Vicki,
I feel for your story, that shows exactly what their behaviors and motives were to the rebuke of their defenders here. They did not want congregations, just the property.
Comment by Vicki Meisterhans on September 2, 2024 at 4:43 pm
And apportionment money!!
Comment by Tim on September 2, 2024 at 7:01 pm
There’s nothing in the Gospels about homosexuality. There’s EVERYTHING in the Gospels about not abandoning the vulnerable. Over and over again, Jesus places himself and hopefully us on the side of the man beaten and left for dead on the road to Jericho.
I don’t know what you call a faith that makes you angrier about possibly having a gay pastor than about the 14,000 dead Palestinian kids this unjust war has killed. It certainly isn’t Christianity. It certainly isn’t Biblical.
Comment by MikeB on September 2, 2024 at 7:38 pm
Tim,
You are still entirely heretical and ridiculous in your view that because Jesus did not say it (in spite of him literally saying that not one jot or tittle of the law would perish) that you can throw out the Old Testament, all of Paul’s letters, and anything not in 4 very short books.
Matthew 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Matthew 5:19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
You continue to preach the church of Tim, where the only sin is judging Tim. Where you quote one off verses in no context so you can continue to attack those who call you out on your pride.
Do you really think that the God of the Old Testament is different than the New? Is that the official position of the church of Tim?
Comment by Tim on September 2, 2024 at 8:56 pm
No Mike, as I’ve told you several times before, Acts 15 releases us Gentiles from most Jewish law. If you don’t believe that than I assume you’re out discriminating against people with tattoos and who own T-shirts made with blended fibers.
You keep quoting random verses as if they support your point of view. It is a stone cold fact that no canonical Gospel mentions homosexuality. Find something more relevant to make the core of your faith.
But how about actually responding to the point I made? Vicki is mad the UMC bishops care about Palestinians? Jesus taught us to care for the afflicted, not side with the powerful.
Comment by MikeB on September 2, 2024 at 9:09 pm
Tim,
Most… Really…
Murder but not gay acts because Tim says so?
No, it releases dietary laws like it literally says. But no Tim must have what he wants…
Acts is not a gospel, so it’s not legitimate? Unless the Pope that is you have decided that Acts is now a gospel but Paul is not, because Tim hates Paul…
So even if I give you that we are free from all Jewish Law Because Christ died for all our sins, the OT does say it’s detestable to God, an abomination, an offense (something perverse, unnatural, abhorrent, and detestable).
Is it your case that you please God with your pride? You repeatedly and proudly going back to that act? What about Murder?
Comment by Tim on September 3, 2024 at 6:34 am
Yes Mike. What about murder?
That’s the question I’m literally asking about Israel and Palestinians.
Jesus didn’t apparently care enough about same sex relationships to be recorded mentioning them. He darn sure cared about the powerful ignoring the plight of the oppressed. It’s in the Bible over and over and over again.
Comment by MikeB on September 3, 2024 at 2:57 pm
Tim,
Jesus said ALL of the OLD TESTAMENT was valid, so yes he did mention it with the rest of the Old Testament.
It was quite well understood based on Hebrew scripture when he said that, exactly like people getting frisky with animals.
See here is the thing, when someone walks into a room and says crazy things like they are fact, the conversation needs to clarify that they are indeed dead wrong before moving to another topic.
If you could admit that your strange interpretation is non biblical then we can talk about Gaza. But you were the one who made the exact false claim that Jesus never mentioned it.
Jesus is God, God spoke the laws in the Old Testament. God spoke through Paul in his letters. Jesus literally stated that the Old Testament was still in force.
Deny it all you want, but the church of Tim and your explicit heretical statements will not pass muster, logically or biblically.
It is like if you go to court and deny all laws that refer to penalties by reference and not by explicit text. The judge will throw you in jail, because that is how language works, passing meaning by reference. I can’t imagine you are having an actual hard time with that very basic point… unless you need me to dumb it down for you.
We pass by reference so we don’t need to repeat information that Has Not Changed.
Comment by Vicki Meisterhans on September 3, 2024 at 3:34 pm
War is always “hell” for those in it’s path! Always has been, always will be! I am not mad that Bishop’s participated in protest……I just feel they chose to participate on the wrong side of issue…..we are to stand with Israel! I hate that innocent people are dying in Gaza…..but we can’t forget the fact that Hamas did horrific acts on October 7 and Israel has the right to defend itself and get their hostages back. I am praying there will be a negotiated agreement that will result in a cease fire and return of the hostages. Imagine being one of the hostage’s family and not knowing their fate. These terrorists have a history of hiding among civilian population, then blaming other side when there is fallout from a strategic strike.
As for the UMC Gen Conf, it isn’t just LGBTQ issue for me, they made many decisions that are contrary to the teachings of scripture.
I don’t know youTim, and you don’t know me; we have to agree to disagree on these issues, without judgment here.
Comment by Tim on September 3, 2024 at 4:53 pm
All right Mike. You’ve had your fun mocking the church of Tim. Let’s make sure we all understand what the church of Mike espouses, since apparently Acts 15 didn’t happen and ALL OF THE OLD TESTAMENT applies.
In your church , every woman’s period ends each month with a ritual bath, and on the 8th day she sacrifices 2 pigeons. (Leviticus 15)
In your church, every time two people have sex they take a ritual bath and are unclean until evening (Leviticus 15.)
In your church, no one has a tattoo (Leviticus 19:28)
In your church, clothing is checked to make sure it doesn’t have wool and linen
In your church, blasphemers are put to death (Leviticus 24:23)
In your church, daughters of priests who become prostitutes are burned to death (Leviticus 21:9)
In your church, no one cuts their sidelocks (Leviticus 19:27.)
If that sounds ridiculous, maybe we can admit that Acts 15 happened and that Gentiles aren’t bound by Jewish law?
Comment by MikeB on September 3, 2024 at 6:27 pm
Ahh Tim, you still don’t understand the language of the Old Testament. Not shocking.
I’ve explained it to you a number of times but you keep getting more angry…
I mock your church of Tim, because indeed you do not care about anyone but yourself. Some fools taught you lies, and you now cling to them like your world would collapse if you had to admit that you are a sinner in need of salvation.
Your only claims of sins are the things you personally agree with, such as people being rude to Tim.
Obviously anything referring to clean and unclean are hygienic and dietary laws, which were written for the safety and wellbeing of the children of Israel.
Then there are the do not act like a pagan laws, which again are in relation to Israel being set apart.
Yes anyone acting like a pagan should repent and live more godly.
And yes, while Christ died for us and paid the penalty of law, the penalty for blasphemy like you do is death, you will die like all men, the same as for the clergy that let their daughters fall into such a state.
Anyone doing such should indeed get right with God and repent of their sins.
And you should to, Christ can and will save.
Comment by Tim on September 3, 2024 at 10:14 pm
So in other words, we need to look at the entire book of Leviticus in the context of its time but not 18:22 because you like that one?
Comment by MikeB on September 3, 2024 at 11:34 pm
Tim,
Of course we look at 18:22 in context, the context is it is an abomination, just like many others vs the clean unclean ones. That’s literally the plain wording context as much as you try to throw uncertainty in it.
I appreciate them all, it is you that refuse context. The abomination ones are indeed in context, they are ALL sins, God does not abide by them. He forgives them, but that isn’t what you want, you don’t want to be forgiven, you want to hold onto your pride.
Instead of being grateful that he died for your abominations that you use to mock him and his laws, you want to encourage others to sin willingly.
I promise you, there are many other sins that I wish were not sins, as I like all followers of Christ sin, and sin again. But I won’t pretend that I am somehow righteous and encourage others to share the sins that I have, no, I lay my sins at the Cross, and thank my savior for paying my price.
You and your sins ain’t special, they are quite normal.
Comment by Tim on September 4, 2024 at 6:53 am
Mike I’m sure you’re just following the playbook you were given when indoctrinated, but just to clarify, when you personally attack me you really don’t accomplish anything. In none of my posts have I claimed to be anything other than a sinner in need of redemption. I am also not an LGBTQ person.
I just don’t understand why conservative Christians get to judge other people (forbidden in multiple Gospels,) think they know God’s workings and plans (cautioned against in Job,) are allowed to be cruel instead of loving (repeatedly warned against in the Johnine epistles) and get to turn human sexuality into the central part of our faith when Jesus doesn’t ever mention it.
So beat up on me all you want. I will continue to point out that you don’t speak for God and Scripture gives you no authority to.
Comment by George on September 4, 2024 at 4:55 pm
Tim says 14,000 Palestinian children have been killed in Gaza. Who came up with that number? The evil Hamas leaders who embed themselves next to schools and under hospitals? Tell us Tim, how many souls were murdered last October just for being Jews?
You could care less. You won’t cut the Israelis any slack will you, but I can give you 6,000,000 good reasons why Jews are in Israel. The best reason of all is that “God gave them that land”.
As for your concerns about the LGBTQRST……. , most of the rainbow warriors are “one trick ponies”. They surround themselves and their sanctuaries with love and rainbows and just about anything as long as it’s more love and rainbows. What’s next next? I’m afraid to ask.
Comment by Margie Flinn on September 4, 2024 at 6:01 pm
Our church will probably be one of the next shut downs from Loretta Isaiah. Out pastor resigned and she has known since the beginning of August that we needed a new pastor. She has told about 10 different stories as to why we don’t have one yet. Can’t believe a word she says and she is so disrespectful. I believe in the next two weeks, we will be shut down. Please pray for us. We have a gentleman that is 93 and has attended Coleman Chapel since he was 1 year old.
Comment by MikeB on September 4, 2024 at 6:45 pm
Tim,
I’ve continued to hammer on your pride, you have continued to take it upon yourself the church of Tim to declare what is a sin. You have shared how you want to spread your views to others.
You have continued to lie and mislead again and again, no one could possibly believe one who changes their statement so often.
You pretend others are cruel to you, what lies that is, you want the freedom to lie about the gospels and not have anyone push back on your lies.
When you are a liar others are free to call you out as such.
When you deny the Bible other than parts of the gospels you are rightly called a heretical false shepard.
Biblical inerrancy is the critical tenants, any deviation from that is to be pushed back on.
Your love of pride is spelled out clearly in your words. You cannot go to Christ by the broad way of no repentance that you preach and you would lead others down that path.
So yes, in love I will continue to push back.
Comment by Tim on September 4, 2024 at 7:35 pm
All right George. If you don’t believe the Gazan numbers we’ll take Bibi’s May 7th estimate that 16,0000 Palestinian civilians have been killed since October 7th.
That’s a little more than 11 innocent Palestinian civilians killed per innocent Israeli civilian. If your church doesn’t protest that than I question your commitment to pro life causes.
Comment by MikeB on September 4, 2024 at 8:07 pm
Tim,
Added an extra zero there… Of course you will claim that was a typo, but it is very on point for your lack of trustworthiness.
To also note, that the Israeli deaths were pure murder targeting civilians, while Palestinian deaths were collateral damage in strikes on Hamas.
But more so why are you so angry about a non Christian country killing Non Christians? You aren’t caring about Sudan, Yemen, Nigeria? Those poor Muslims in China?
Comment by George on September 4, 2024 at 9:32 pm
You’re funny Tim. Next you will be comparing the deaths of the personnel killed at Pearl Harbor to the children killed at Hiroshima. Of course there are no comparisons because it’s war. You know. Death, destruction, etc etc
Comment by Tim on September 5, 2024 at 6:01 am
Sorry George. I’m not wasting time explaining to someone who confesses Jesus as their Savior why they should care about people. The Lord will deal with such “Christians” on judgement day:
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ (Matthew 25:45)
Comment by MikeB on September 5, 2024 at 9:34 am
Tim,
You’ve been proven again and again as a truthless agitator who detests Christianity.
Your words remain so illogical and ignorant that they can only come from someone who wants only to throw hate at those who one sees as the opponent.
George called you out on your garbage, you of course don’t care one iota about Palestinians.
You can run off and sulk like you always do, but then you will be back with the same weak argument as always to attack Christianity.
I know you won’t but you do need to question why your arguments are so laughable.
Comment by Carl Murphy on September 5, 2024 at 10:25 am
As a former UMC pastor that was fired the day my church voted to disaffiliate and replaced with a liberal, I can say that I taught from the Bible, God the Father’s Word. We, those that voted to disaffiliate for 5 months in another place, when we got our building back we joined the Association of Independent Methodist. An organization that helps, not dictates. No apportionments, just free will. Church calls their own pastor, Association will help find candidates. No bishops, elected president. Annual conference is 90% worship, 10% business. The theme is working together to build God’s Kingdom. Need help, they are there. The Annual Conference is like old time worship. We believe as Jesus taught, love your neighbor as He loves us. Which means do not hesitate to preach The Word, even if it causes micro aggression (sic). There is one way to Heaven, through the blood, not my refraining from telling people the truth it keep from hurting their feelings. Better to hurt their feelings than let them burn in hell forever. Since June3, 2023 attendance is up 35%. People hunger for God’s Word. Teach it and teach them to read it for themselves.
Comment by Jay on September 12, 2024 at 12:27 pm
So sad what is happening to the UMC as they drift away from God’s Word. I cannot see the current church being a relevant force in America even 10 years from now. The decline had been so rapid and acrimonious. Very sad.
Comment by Steve on September 22, 2024 at 6:00 pm
The traditional methodists tend to be the givers. The others believe in big government not the church, so we shall see.
Comment by Scott on October 24, 2024 at 4:38 pm
So glad to be done with the United Methodist Church! Last year, I officially by letter resigned my membership in my local UMC (of which I had been a member for over 25 years) after my church helped promote a Pride event and the assistant pastor “proudly” proclaimed herself bisexual. Coming from a longtime Methodist family stretching back to the mid-1800s, my resignation was not something I did lightly. But I did it happily and felt immediate relief to have freed myself from what clearly has become an apostate church and denomination.