A further response to the question, “Why would you stay United Methodist when you have worked for evangelical renewal groups for so long and have in the past argued for amicable separation?”
I have long argued that even while the leadership of the United Methodist Church—mostly the bishops, the seminaries and the boards and agencies—have been dominated by progressive theology and social stances, the people in the pew and many of the clergy have reflected the more conservative and evangelical faith of their Methodist forebears.
On several occasions (in the 1980s) when I was both a General Conference delegate and a district superintendent, I gave those who attended local church charge conferences theological and social concerns questionnaires. I not only asked about such things as the sexual ethic of faithfulness in marriage and celibacy in singleness, but also about “inclusive” language, and even doctrinal questions about the authority of Scripture. I collected nearly 1,000 responses on the two times I tried this, and in both instances the lay people scored very high on the evangelical scale.
When Roger Finke, church sociologist who with Rodney Starke wrote The Churching of America 1776-1990, and several other books, compared North Indiana churches which were associated with our conference Evangelical Fellowship, with all other churches in the years 1993-95, he found that churches on our Evangelical Fellowship mailing list increased in attendance by 4.5 percent in those years while churches served by pastors not on the list decreased by 1.3 percent.
Since about 1995 I have not believed that it would be possible for UM Churches to be united in one denomination because of the cultural developments, especially in regard to human sexuality, which have so divided us. Indeed, I confess I have argued since the 1990s that we needed an amicable separation. But what should have been amicable has turned ugly. When I worked for the Confessing Movement, our director, Patricia Miller, who also was a state senator, commented on several occasions that politics in the church was sometimes uglier than state politics. We should not be at war.
The Global Methodist Church, the United Methodist Church, and those now-independent Methodist churches, need each other. I have been a part of the Indiana United Methodist Historical Society for a number of years. That society should represent both GMC and UMC churches. In order to encourage this, our group now calls itself the Indiana Methodist Historical Society. We can do this because we are not officially a conference agency (the official agency is the Commission on Archives and History). I have been interested in Henderson Settlement, a UM ministry in Appalachia. The director, a former member of a church I served, tells me both UM and GMC churches have supported this ministry, but its ministry will be diminished if one of those groups backs away. I also serve on the Kafakumba Board of Directors which supports ministerial training schools in Congo and Zambia. This ministry was under the auspices of the Board of Global Ministries until in the 1980s the board disaffiliated (that is, severed relationships) from about eight of the more evangelical missionaries in Africa. All of the ministries have continued but with independent boards. The Kafakumba work operates not only training schools for clergy, but schools and hospitals and agricultural ministries (with the help of Purdue University). But its American support comes from both UMC churches and GMC churches. For these reasons we need the cooperation of all Methodist bodies. This is one reason why I want to use what little influence I have to remain UM.
The just concluded 2024 UM General Conference was not encouraging for the future of Methodism. Most institutionalists laud the conference as a great success. It deleted all negative references to the practice of homosexuality; it passed a plan called “regionalization” (which will need to be ratified by annual conferences), and it passed a new Social Principles statement. What it did not do was show any sensitivity toward the evangelical constituency of the church. It spoke glowingly of unity, but it is quite possible that there is more dissatisfaction with the institutional church than ever before.
Already the Ivory Coast conference in Africa, with a million members, has withdrawn from the denomination. If social media is to be believed, numbers of individuals and groups, which hoped for some compromises, are departing the denomination (although I agree that one should not depend on the reliability of social media).
Despite all of the glowing reports about the conference, with “new beginnings” and “a fresh start” and a “wonderful sense of unity,” there needs to be a realization that it is only from the progressive wing of the church that there is optimism. Basically the conference bought into the gay agenda. But worse, it seemed to assess the conference as a war won. Supposedly hatred was overcome. The victory was so overwhelming that the actions of the conference, which usually take effect the first of the year following (2025 in this case) were declared to take effect immediately. It is a sign of “the Gap,” the cleavage between an elitist leadership and common Methodists, that so many seem to be so unaware of the dark clouds now hovering over the church.
Some further comments and questions, and some prescriptions if there is to be a hopeful United Methodist future.
1) If the United Methodist Church, post 2024 General Conference, is to be a big-tent, inclusive church where all will be affirmed, what are the signs that traditionalists and evangelicals will have a future with the denomination? Where are the conferences where evangelicals are being made superintendents or placed on the conference staff? We have diversity in terms of gender and age and race. Where specifically is the diversity in terms of theological perspective? Who are the United Methodist bishops or seminary professors or heads of UM agencies that are being acclaimed in the evangelical world as major voices for the propagation of the gospel?
2) Other than “regionalization” is there any strategy for the encouragement of African evangelical Christians? I have been a delegate to five General Conferences and an alternate to several more. Our General Conferences have not always been affirming in the inclusion of our overseas delegates. I have seen our monitoring agencies call out African delegates for “sexist” or “insensitive” language. I have heard sighs of disapproval whenever an African delegate would express an opinion such as saying the practice of homosexuality is a sin. I have seen translators not able to interpret the Christian ideas expressed during the discussions and debates of the conference. I have seen General Conference committees fail in such basic things as making sure overseas delegates could get visas even to attend the conference (about 70 overseas delegates were not able to attend the 2024 conference). There are some good reasons why regionalism is a good idea, but there is one very, very bad idea: as a maneuver that implies that declaring that one’s gender is a matter of personal preference, and not Biblical teaching, and/or, that what is Biblical teaching on human sexuality in one part of the world is not Biblical in another. Many of us have real concerns about United Methodism as a global movement.
3) Can the church make the hard decisions that will be necessary for a hopeful future? We have too many seminaries and too many boards and agencies. The church is overwhelmingly institutional-centered in a day when the trend is toward congregational autonomy (more about these things in later articles).
Comment by Tony on June 19, 2024 at 1:16 pm
All this endless verbiage of inclusiveness, affirming, loving, accepting, tolerating, open mindedness, open doors, open hearts, welcoming at the table, big tent, et al can never remove the fact that the UMC radically legislated the abandonment of REPENTANCE-SALVATION-GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST at that Charlotte meeting. The UMC is now under the control of the same radical liberal contingency as that of the secular culture.— same people. The trajectory of that is more radical liberalism. Calling it an INSTITUTION is correct in that it is no longer a Christian church — just the opposite.
Luke 15:1-7
15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” 3 Then Jesus told them this parable:4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Acts 2:36-40
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlerswill inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 6:1-14
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin;how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptizedinto Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with himso that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Comment by Gary Bebop on June 19, 2024 at 4:41 pm
If you are a superannuated United Methodist elder, you are probably wise to stay put. But let’s not promote fantasies of chummy accommodation for traditionalists who remain inside the UMC. Have you not read the memo? The plan for the church includes a program of reeducating traditionalists about the queering of the church. Riley Case has every excuse to skip the meetings (he’s got a legacy exemption, like the Amish of Shipshewana). But will that apply to Indiana’s John Meunier? Unlikely.
Comment by Tom Thornton on June 20, 2024 at 10:48 am
Why do you want to work with an institution that is sending money and thus influence to Africa and elsewhere abroad ..and thereby exporting their false reading of scripture and aberrant “theology”?
Comment by Roger on June 20, 2024 at 4:39 pm
Rev Riley Case
The Scriptures are clear concerning sexual y immorality. As a Leader of the Church, to promote staying with the UMC is out of the question. To remain with these people is to promote them. He who touches pitch is defiled. Paul says in ! Corinthians 5: 1, It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you. Verse 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. Disafilliation allows you to become a new lump undefiled by immorality. This is where real Christians should be.
Comment by MikeB on June 20, 2024 at 11:03 pm
Mr. Case,
You really do want to assume that they think as you do, this has been a weakness for decades.
Once someone rejects any part of Christ’s word, they reject the holy spirit.
Christ says to be as wise as serpents but as harmless as doves. It may hurt you to admit it but these people who are tearing down the Word of God are not your brethren no matter how much you wish it.
They indeed see you as a obstacle to be overcome, I wish you didn’t have to see what will happen, but they will purge the Godly from.any leadership.
Comment by Pamela Ferguson on June 21, 2024 at 10:08 am
I have recently returned to the Methodist Church-after a 50 year break. (Sorry if I’m off topic, but not yet fully understanding all the issues being discussed here)
I like the peace and security of my new church home, St Thomas UMC in Manassas, Va.
I feel warm feelings of nostalgia and especially enjoy our beautiful hymnal.
As a professional musician, I have been fully steeped in secular culture here in DC.
And yes, I was even a Unitarian Universalist for 10 years-until I had an epiphany: “When one is on one’s deathbed (hopefully not quite yet!) the Seven Principles of Unitarianism are a cold comfort.”
I like the simplicity and kindness of the sermons preached by our Pastor Matt Sergent. He mainly preaches the basics of love, rebirth, and forgiveness, that are available to all of us, through Jesus Christ, when we learn to open our hearts.
It seems to me that many in the Evangelical churches have taken a wrong course lately.
My perhaps naive understanding is that Easter (resurrection) requires crucifixion: a person must experience the death of their old, complicated, sinful self in order to be reborn. Christianity could not exist if Jesus had not been crucified! Isn’t that right?
But, it seems that many Evangelicals lately tend to emphasize the “calamity” of that event-of the crucifixion. But to focus on the “calamity” causes people start to look for someone to blame. Of course the ancient scapegoat is still the Jews, but now add Gays, or Libs, or Trans persons, or migrants, or Moslems, or poor people….
It is a truly bad moon rising:
Christian Nationalism (there I said it!) is a twisted perversion of our Christian faith, and is such a dangerous path for our world.
At a time like this, I believe we Methodists (UMC or Plain Ones) must join hands with Baptists, Presbyterians, and with other conservative, to middle of the road denominations, to keep our beloved churches, and our country, from floundering into a state of chaos.
We must not look for specks in each other’s eyes, and ignore the plank that is about to hit us all, full force, in our faces.
Comment by Tony on June 21, 2024 at 2:53 pm
Staying with the NewUMC would have required me at the very minimum to accept the fact that this new denomination does not accept these Scriptures (below) as authoritative and the Word of God. It would have required me to fully accept those who selectively reject Scriptures as the new norm — including those preaching and teaching — without challenging them for fear of offending and being accused as prejudicial against them instead of loving them.
Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Genesis 2:24
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
Matthew 19:4-6
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Leviticus 18:22
22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable
Romans 1:24-27
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.27 In the same way **the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Romans 5:8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Acts 2:38-40
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized,every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
1 Corinthians 6:7-11
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 11
1 Corinthians 6:18-20
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price.Therefore honor God with your bodies.
1 Corinthians 5:11
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
Comment by Skipper on June 21, 2024 at 6:30 pm
In your Part I you mentioned the Good News. I considered them part of the problem earlier (it doesn’t matter any more and they have been very helpful recently). They would not approve comments that called homosexuality sin, thinking this angered the gay community and somehow they would change if left alone (of course that didn’t happen). They would have censored John Wesley too. Putting offenders out of the church was not allowed by Good News or the UMC in general. Now you see where that gets you. Don’t be mad at the real Methodists for leaving. Follow the stampede. Proverbs tells us bad company corrupts. You better be sure in your faith if you stay in because I have seen the UMC corrupt some mighty good preachers! It’s such a shame. Don’t let them get you.
Comment by MikeB on June 21, 2024 at 7:16 pm
Pamela,
You talk about the death of one’s sinful self, do you know what that means?
You talk about opening ones heart.. to what?
Christians think of the crucifixion as a calamity? The moment the Maker of the universe gave his only Son for me personally? The moment that he who is beyond time took up the cross willingly? The moment he finished the redemption of my soul?
The moment he conquered death and hell?
I’m not sure you’ve ever met a Christian, much less studied God’s word. Your words feel like a parody of a reddit thread… You seem to know only people who think of Christianity as a vibe, as a nice karma way to live.
It’s not, it’s a full on dedication of our lives to the death to the very real Lord of Emperors, the word made flesh who created matter and energy. Who molded the universe and me.
Who physically came to earth in the flesh, to save us, we who are too sinful to be in the presence of God. He who will return in flesh and power and who holds my soul.
My death and my life are in his hands, he knows me heart and soul, and one day I will touch his hands and feel where the nails pierced for me.
Comment by Td on June 21, 2024 at 8:47 pm
Everyone has free will to choose as they will. But i hope you are under no illusion that the UMC is practicing Christianity- they simply are no longer Christian in doctrine or practice. If the institution does end up growing, it will be because they end up becoming the vanguard of post christian paganism. “Trust the science” “be kind” “hate has no home here” “pride” “love is love” “silence is violence” “oppressed peoples”
Comment by Skipper on June 22, 2024 at 12:01 pm
Jesus said in Matthew 7:6 “Don’t give to dogs what is holy. They will only turn and attack you. Don’t throw pearls down in front of pigs. They will trample all over them.” So don’t waste time offering something helpful to those who don’t appreciate it. You are trying in vain when they are totally ungrateful. They refuse to submit to the authority of God. They have chosen poorly, but that is not your fault. Look for greener pastures, someone will receive what God offers when shown to have faith and obey.
Comment by Tim on June 22, 2024 at 2:24 pm
All of this misses a key point. No one kicked traditionalists out of the church. No one forced a church to allow same sex marriages or a pastor to officiate one. All we did is say we’re going to stop discriminating against LGBTQ people and traditionalists pretended that was an attack on them.
Comment by MikeB on June 22, 2024 at 5:11 pm
Tim,
You missed the key point, why did the traditionalists leave and the liberals stay.
Because without the buildings, the organization, and the money, the liberals have nothing.
Because without Christ, the traditionalists have nothing.
God’s word is sacred, the traditionalists would have left if you glorified theft instead, and allowed unrepentant thieves to stay in the clergy.
Comment by Tony on June 23, 2024 at 8:23 am
Tim,
Nah — not an attack on traditionalists. What happened in Charlotte was the culmination of 50+ years that finally succeeded in legislating the radical rejection of the Word of God in this NewUMC and ushering in a modern form of cultural paganism.
Comment by Td on June 23, 2024 at 1:27 pm
Tim- you need to define what “lgbt people” means. If it means people who experience same sex attraction, then there never was a discriminatory rule barring them from ordination because the rule was based on behavior.. If it means those engaged in non- heterosexual sex with no repentance, then the discrimination was just because they were publicly engaged in behavior grossly out of line with divinely revealed Christian sexual teachings.
Comment by Tim on June 23, 2024 at 10:59 pm
Mike the liberals don’t have nothing. We have UMCOR, our prison outreach and reintegration work, our soup kitchens, our clothing closets, and our shelters. Our churches are actively fighting homelessness and the scourges of poverty. These are the things Jesus told us to do and that his ministry reflects. From what the traditionalists say, you’d think human sexuality is at the core of our faith, rather than something barely mentioned in the gospels. Jesus told us to love one another and to leave the judging up to Him. That this fight over LGBT rights distracted us from our core mission of helping people is a deplorable shame.
Comment by MikeB on June 23, 2024 at 11:52 pm
Tim,
“Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father keeps feeding them.”
It is not your work that matters one bit, you miss the whole point of the gospel, it is that full fidelity to God is all that is required
“But the other criminal protested, “Don’t you fear God even when you have been sentenced to die? We deserve to die for our crimes, but this man hasn’t done anything wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.”
And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.””
The core mission of Christians has never been to help people. The core mission has been to follow Christ. One cannot follow only some of Christ’s words, the gospel is the divinely inspired word of God, every Jot and Tittle.
When Christ told Peter to feed his sheep, he asked him firstly, “Do you Love me” That is it, ministry comes from loving God first.
As Paul says, “and if I give away all my goods to feed others, and if I give up my body that I may be burned, and do not have love, I am profited nothing.”
You admit here for all to see from your own words that without the organization of UMC, YOU HAVE NOTHING.
I have Christ, now and forever.
Comment by Tim on June 24, 2024 at 6:54 am
Mike if you don’t think the core mission of Christians is to help people then I strongly suggest spending a little more time reading Matthew 25. Over and over again in the Gospels, Jesus goes out of his way to spend time with those that the religious people of His time didn’t think matter. To Jesus everyone matters.
I wish those who left the UMC well and hope your ministries are fruitful. But right now I worry about the caution in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3: where is the love? The thoughts on this blog are so angry and cynical. If you truly believe you are following Christ than build your new church with love rather than with anger towards your old church.
Comment by Skipper on June 24, 2024 at 7:29 am
Tim,
You may find some of these verses helpful.
1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is right and it pleases God our savior who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (ESV) Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, “but test everything; hold fast what is good”. The test is whether a preacher’s message aligns with the Word of God.
Comment by Skipper on June 24, 2024 at 10:18 am
Tim,
I think we all agree that Jesus came to show us how God wants us to live. Jesus was a moral person. The Bible tells us repeatedly that we must be moral people if we want to live lives pleasing to God. If we love others, don’t we have a responsibly not only to live as Jesus taught, but to lead others to follow Christ as well?
Comment by Pastor Mike on June 24, 2024 at 4:39 pm
Tim, the core mission of Christians is about spreading the Gospel or the good news of Jesus Christ. Telling people about God’s love, Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross, and the hope of eternal life through Him – those “should” be our priorities as Christians.
Comment by MikeB on June 24, 2024 at 7:27 pm
Tim,
In no way is this a metaphor, I am one dying thief telling another dying thief, you, that we are in need of redemption, while using the words of another dying thief of 2,000 years ago.
You and I are nailed to our sins, we cannot reach out to Christ. But he can reach out to us, in fact he came to this earth to redeem us.
The love is indeed that we thieves here will call you out, the other thief on the cross, who thinks he can hold onto his sins, that he can hold back one sin from repentance.
Indeed, why the rich young ruler turned away but the thief did not, was not based on works, but on Following Christ. As this was true of him, you also hold back what is precious to you from God.
Comment by Corwyn on June 25, 2024 at 11:38 pm
You have to stay with the United Methodist Church! The United Methodist Church is the largest Methodist denomination in the United States. It represents the Wesleyan Theological Heritage in the U.S. It controls the historic institutions, resources, and congregations which make America a great nation. The conservatives won the vote on gay marriage. However the Liberals resisted and the conservative ran away like cowards. You must not allow the preaching of heresy and blasphemy in the name of the Church and thus in the name of Christ.
Comment by MichaelUSA on June 26, 2024 at 11:47 pm
Our core mission is to proclaim the Gospel and make disciples of Jesus Christ.
Comment by Tony on June 27, 2024 at 10:47 am
How can the UMC STOP preaching Christ crucified and abandon two of the core pillars of of Wesleyan theology — (1) Justifying Grace and (2) Sanctifying Grace and continue identifying as a Christian-Wesleyan church?
Comment by Very Sad on June 27, 2024 at 11:53 am
Tim, and others,
I’m sorry, your understanding of people who left the church and reasoning why people stay is so flawed it is beyond belief. Sadly, it is quite common in the new UMC, and always will be.
You see that people who disagree with the UMC and left are wrong, and not Christian, because they are not willing to work with helping people who are sexual minorities, or people in prison.
That’s not correct. The issue is quite clearly that the new UMC and other churches overtly agree with the secular left and says that being gay/lgbt, etc. is perfectly normal and reasonable. The church is is saying that it is okay to change your gender, its just fine to abort fetuses in the womb, it’s okay to have clergy who are practicing homosexuals (in spite of the massive lawsuits and the dismantling of the Boy Scouts the church has had to deal with).
The problem is those belief and practices destroy human beings. It destroys society, and pulls people away from Christ. Have you not seen or read about the overt hatred that radicals these days have for Christians? Have you not seen or read about the discrimination against Christians some government agencies have, even to the point of saying pro-life people are among the major terrorist threats to the US government? Have you not read the rhetoric leaders in the UMC in the past said about conservatives in the denomination about these issues?
There are some very nice people I know and work with who are a sexual minority by choice. I firmly believe they are wrong and sinning, but I know I sin too. I do my best to witness to my faith and treat others the way I would want treated, so that they may follow Christ and live life to the fullest.
The secular left does not care about humans, to them they are means to an end, the acquisition of power. They only value humans for their utility, instead of their inherent worth (as beings created by God). Why the church aligns with the secular left on the issues of what is a human I will never understand. From your posts, I guess you will never understand the beliefs of those who left the church either.
Comment by Cathy McLeod on June 28, 2024 at 10:38 am
The churches are becoming indistinguishable from the world.
How could a person stand to sit in a place where an unrepentant transgressor twists accounts in the Bible to insinuate a gay relationship between Johnathan and David, Rachel and Naomi from the pulpit?
Traditional teaching and preaching is out the window. Yet that has been taught for centuries, passed from Jesus to the disciples to us.
Plainly put this is the falling away mentioned in the Bible. Progressivism has infested all faiths. Moving away from repentance and salvation.
No longer walking in the spirit, but walking in the flesh. This is representative of the other side. Humanism replacing Christianity.
The scriptures warn us that those that walk in the flesh cannot please God.
It is a choice, a preference , a desire–not put there by God, but in the heart of that person by their own doing.
This new thing represents death, lies, rebellion, deceitful ness.
It comes as no surprise., but we had hoped not to see it taking form in our lifetime.
Comment by Pastor Mike on June 28, 2024 at 4:57 pm
Here’s an example of the “anything goes and is OK” NewUMC I shudder to think what is being “preached” for UMC pulpits.
“Leaders need to establish the ground rules: Everybody’s God language is appropriate. People’s God language signifies a relationship that you can’t interfere with. You can raise questions and offer additional perspectives, but you can’t dictate. You can’t prohibit anybody from using any language about God. Whether they want to call God “Jehovah” or “Big Dog,” you can’t judge the validity of how that name connects them with God. People just need to get used to that.” – UMC Discipleship Ministries Webpage
Comment by Pastor Mike on June 28, 2024 at 4:59 pm
Here’s an example of the “anything goes and is OK” NewUMC. I shudder to think what is being “preached” from UMC pulpits.
“Leaders need to establish the ground rules: Everybody’s God language is appropriate. People’s God language signifies a relationship that you can’t interfere with. You can raise questions and offer additional perspectives, but you can’t dictate. You can’t prohibit anybody from using any language about God. Whether they want to call God “Jehovah” or “Big Dog,” you can’t judge the validity of how that name connects them with God. People just need to get used to that.” – UMC Discipleship Ministries Webpage
Comment by LiddingtonMedowbrookdenishera on June 28, 2024 at 8:15 pm
Highly recommend!! Worked for me🙂🙂🙂,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
(Make your Ex love you again)
Revive broken relationship.
Best regards
Thank you! Dr_ma c k ((y AH o O….. C o)) m,,
Comment by Tony on June 30, 2024 at 9:16 am
THE TRAGEDY OF THIS NewUMC:
When one responds to God’s Prevenient Grace — the journey of finding and experiencing Justifying and Sanctifying Grace — the very essence Wesleyan theology and Christianity— officially can no longer be accomplished there after that 2024 Charlotte meeting. And, those remaining who having experienced this marvelous saving grace run the real risk of jeopardizing it.
Comment by Skipper on July 5, 2024 at 10:50 am
J Vernon McGee said “if they don’t teach what the Bible teaches, they’re not a church.” You need to be in a church.
Comment by Skipper on July 7, 2024 at 9:23 am
The tragedy of the new UMC is how it leads people away from the Lord and into the darkness of immoral lifestyles. Both Isaiah and Jesus sternly warned about making your own rules and teaching them as God’s rules. The new UMC teaches forgiveness without turning from your sin. The Bible is very clear. By remaining a member of a corrupt organization you would be a bad influence on people. Why would you want to do that?
Comment by Skipper on July 7, 2024 at 10:02 am
Tony, I agree the New UMC is tragic.