Sue Haupert-Johnson had already earned a reputation as a Methodist bully. But this week, she used her authority as Bishop of the United Methodist Church’s North Georgia Conference to take “heavy handed” to a whole new level. In a shocking escalation of an ongoing crisis, her regime has now moved to suddenly and immediately seize complete control of the operations and considerable assets of a conservative megachurch.
Even the secular Atlanta Journal-Constitution newspaper is calling Haupert-Johnson’s choice a “stunning decision” and “an extremely rare move.”
Some background: While our denomination’s system has bishops appoint pastors, our governing Book of Discipline (¶426) also requires bishops and district superintendents to consult with pastors and congregations’ staff-parish relations committees before moving clergy, stating that “consultation is not merely notification.” This is especially important for megachurches like Mt. Bethel UMC. With over 10,000 members, its own private K-12 school, and more than 300 employees, it is the largest congregation in the North Georgia Conference, which is the UMC’s largest-membership conference in America. Any needlessly sudden, ill-considered changes in senior leadership would be harmful and disruptive for ministries impacting a great many people.
But reportedly without respecting the Discipline’s required consulting process, Mt. Bethel senior pastor Jody Ray was abruptly notified last spring that he would be moved away from the congregation. This has been widely perceived as a liberal bishop bullying an outspokenly theologically conservative United Methodist pastor and congregation.
If anyone claims this was about pastoral effectiveness, the official records show that since Ray became senior pastor in 2016, Mt. Bethel’s pre-pandemic membership and worship attendance had been on an upward trajectory, and giving had also been consistently growing. How many of Haupert-Johnson’s favored rainbow-flag-flying pastors can say the same?
The conflict with the bishop over this matter escalated to the point of Ray surrendering his ordination credentials (after which he was hired directly by the congregation as a layman) and Mt. Bethel’s leadership deciding to seek to leave our denomination. It late April, Ray explained that “we would likely be in a very different place” if Haupert-Johnson had approached him earlier and given him a chance to discuss, shape, and pray about the new conference staff position to which she had wanted to move him, but “there was no conversation or consultation at all.”
Now it turns out that even bullying a faithful United Methodist pastor into being effectively defrocked and bullying a huge, evangelical congregation out of the denomination was apparently not enough blood to satisfy Haupert-Johnson.
On Monday, the North Georgia Conference website announced that Haupert-Johnson and her conference administration has now moved to seize control of “all assets of the local church,” that this is “effective immediately,” and that “[e]mployment, instruction, activities, and worship at the church” and its school will now continue “under the direction and control of the Conference Board of Trustees.” The reported value of the congregation’s property and equipment is some $34.6 million.
In a particularly Orwellian phrase, Haupert-Johnson and company claim that in choosing to take such an extraordinary, bullying, ungracious, and entirely unnecessary aggression against fellow United Methodists, they are actually “[a]cting out of love for the church and its mission”!
For its part, Mt. Bethel promptly issued its own statement “Regarding North Georgia Conference UMC Bishop Sue Haupert-Johnson’s Move to Close Mt. Bethel UMC’s Doors and Seize its Assets.” The Mt. Bethel leaders say that Haupert-Johnson “has failed to resolve quietly and amicably a crisis of her own making” and instead “is now engaging attorneys to go to civil court to seize assets that the faithful people at Mt. Bethel have freely and joyfully given for sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ in word and deed.”
Their statement continues: “While [Bishop Sue Haupert-Johnson] claims she is acting out of ‘love for the church and its mission,’ enlisting attorneys and the courts to seize assets is a strange way for a bishop to show her love for one of the healthiest churches in her conference.”
(Indeed, saying I’m only hurting and bullying you because I love you is the sort of talk one expects from domestic abusers, not from any legitimate United Methodist or other Christian leader.)
While Haupert-Johnson “continues to escalate a crisis of her own making,” the statement makes clear, “The people of Mt. Bethel Church will do all in their power to resist the aggressive actions against their church.”
1 Corinthians 6 is rather strongly worded in forbidding the pursuit of lawsuits against fellow Christians as Sue Haupert-Johnson is now doing. Her choice to disregard this clear biblical value in such an aggressive, bullying way indicates that Sue Haupert-Johnson does not regard her fellow United Methodists in Mt. Bethel Church as brothers and sisters in Christ in any meaningful way, or that she is just as willing to disregard any other part of Scripture just as she rejects the sexual-morality teachings of other parts of 1 Corinthians 6. Or perhaps both.
This comes in the context of Bishop Sue Haupert-Johnson having already notoriously led the United Methodist Church’s largest conference in a heavy-handedly liberal way. Along with North Texas Bishop Mike McKee, she serves on the leadership team of the aggressively liberal UMC Next caucus. This level of regular “partisan” involvement is extremely rare for any active bishop, as most others feel at least some need to maintain trust with people in their conferences across the theological spectrum. Haupert-Johnson has publicly claimed to want to include theological traditionalists. But such rhetoric rings hollow in light of her actions, like not appointing a single strongly theologically traditionalist district superintendent.
Haupert-Johnson’s approach to United Methodist leadership has been fundamentally bullying and dictatorial. Multiple knowledgeable sources in that conference report an atmosphere of pastors feeling intimidated against publicly dissenting from the liberal vision Haupert-Johnson has been imposing on North Georgia. She appears to be effectively pressuring North Georgia pastors to make their loyalty to Jesus Christ, Scripture, and our denomination’s duly enacted moral standards in the Discipline all secondary to and trumped by the loyalty Bishop Sue demands to herself and to her unilaterally declared visions of how the church should be. Despite Haupert-Johnson’s rather non-humbly claiming “to speak for Jesus Christ,” as a forceful opposition to biblical teaching on sexuality, Good News has helpful historical overviews of the fight she chose to pick with Mt. Bethel, her suspiciously changing her stories, and reasons to not trust the official messaging coming from her conference office.
One of the most glaring hypocrisies of this crisis is Haupert-Johnson’s self-serving weaponization of the trust clause, that part of our church law stipulating that congregational property is held in trust for the denomination. As Asbury Seminary President explains, the historical purpose of the trust clause was to help ensure that biblical, Wesleyan doctrine was consistently preached in all Methodist congregations. But now Haupert-Johnson is instead using this trust clause as a cruel weapon against those who would dare to publicly dissent from her own public opposition to our denomination’s official, historic doctrinal and moral standards.
Meanwhile, Haupert-Johnson has shown less interest in upholding church law when it’s not been as convenient for her personal ambitions or liberal ideology. She has spoken affirmingly of lesbian activist Karen Oliveto continuing to illegitimately occupy the Denver bishop’s office in blatant violation of our church law. Haupert-Johnson has even publicly declared—despite Oliveto’s widely known public record of such post-Christian radicalism as defending the alleged benefits of demon possession, previously serving as senior pastor of a nominally United Methodist congregation that even liberals admit was not a Christian church in any meaningful sense, and calling Jesus Christ a bigot—that “Karen Oliveto is one of the finest bishops I’ve ever seen.”
Talk about straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel!
Not everyone sees anything wrong with this recent action against Mt. Bethel. Rev. Erik Alsgaard, who until just a couple weeks ago was a longtime top communications staffer for the Baltimore-Washington Conference, was quick to “troll” a theologically orthodox pastor on social media by expressing support for this top-down aggression.
But Bishop Haupert-Johnson’s pattern—with the encouragement of cheerleaders like Erik Alsgaard (who was recently imposed as pastor of Community UMC in Crofton, Maryland)—of creating such an atmosphere of bullying and intimidation, picking a needless fight with such a successful congregation, refusing to de-escalate, and steadily increasing her anti-traditionalist aggression hardly seems possible without, in the words of John Wesley’s “On Schism” sermon, “an alienation of affection” and “a division of heart” against United Methodists outside of the liberal American faction.
Beyond any particular issue, incidents like this highlight the sheer mean-spiritedness, vindictiveness, and anti-Golden-Rule attitude of key liberal United Methodist leaders against theologically traditionalist/orthodox believers in our denomination.
It is precisely because of such intensity of our internal divisions that United Methodists across the spectrum have recognized that our present structural “unity” is unsustainable, and no informed person seriously, honestly argues that there remains any realistic path for us “all to remain together.”
Faithful believers concerned about this bullying can contact Bishop Sue Haupert-Johnson by emailing her at [email protected] or calling her office: 1-678-533-1360. Remember that it would be terrible form to protest unbiblical actions with ways and words that are themselves unloving and unchristian!
7/15/2021 UPDATE: Since this article was first posted, we have learned that the leadership of Mt. Bethel Church have twice offered to Bishop Haupert-Johnson and her officials “to work toward a mutually agreeable resolution through mediation” instead of escalating the conflict, but that Haupert-Johnson and her team have thus far not responded to these two olive branches.
Comment by Hope they can hide the cash on July 14, 2021 at 2:49 pm
Since some people in the denomination consider people who hold conservative views as criminals, I hope the good folks on this church and North Georgia have a place to hide all the cash from the prosecutors. It seems that many rich white-collar criminals always have a lot of cash when they get out of jail, maybe the church membership can hide their cash the same way until this is all over and then build something somewhere else.
Either that or have the biggest potluck in the history of Georgia and spend every last dime then let the conference have an empty shell of a building. If you are going to lose it why have a public legal battle? Just spend it first and leave the denomination so there are no legal issues or fights to embarrass everyone further.
I truly wonder if this bishop would be the one to cast the first stone…
Comment by Lee Cary on July 14, 2021 at 3:10 pm
UM “Traditionalists,” who early on passively accepted that label applied to them as pejorative term to refer to the stodgy, antiquated thinking of theologically stagnant UM’s clergy and laity, should, by now, be awakened to the arrogant, elite, ‘woke’ leadership clergy class of the UMC; particularly those among the episcopacy. And, their names are Legion for there are many like them.
It’s the “Progressive” church leaders, like the ‘Bully’ Bishop (brilliant label Mr. Lomperis!), who know what’s best for the laity. They are, in their own minds, the ‘thought leaders’ for the church. When, in fact, they are, collectively, the UMC’s final undertakers.
Dr. Lee D. Cary, UM clergy (ret.,) Hartmann Fellow, Garrett Evangelical Theological Seminary, Doctor of Sacred Theology, ’79. Former (and last, because when I retired, I successfully recommended the job be erased of) Director of the North Texas Conference Council on Ministries.
Comment by Reynolds on July 14, 2021 at 4:38 pm
They are playing to win and you are doing nothing to prevent this. A bully will keep doing it until someone stands up against them. At some point there will be nothing left next year but sell the properties and that is what she wants. #sheiswinning
When does the the WCA want to win?
Comment by Gary Bebop on July 14, 2021 at 5:56 pm
Thanks, John, for lancing this boil. Frank speech is needed. Clearly, this is a clash of narratives. The “official” UMC press defends Haupert-Johnson with pious, academic testimony about how our polity operates. But lectures on polity are no substitute for the truth. What is the truth of the matter? If a false or tendentious narrative has been set forth in this case, that false narrative must be energetically dismantled. How will WCA assist?
Comment by Dan W on July 14, 2021 at 8:27 pm
If she wins the battle of Mt Bethel but she loses the North Georgia Conference, has she really won anything? No chance for a peaceful separation now.
Bishop abuses trust clause. Destroys all trust in the bishop. Members head for the emergency exits while bishops deploy their golden parachutes.
Comment by Reynolds on July 14, 2021 at 9:34 pm
If her goal sis to drive out Christians from the church and school then yes. People will get sick and tired of it and just leave. The property is worth over 10 million dollars. She and other bishops can retire on that kind of cash. They only in it for the money. If Mt Bethel is still standing next year, they can leave and not pay anything. She has to run them all off the property to sell it. Mt Bethel should be able to tie this up in the court system for several years at a cost of million or so. She is trying to get the cash so they can’t pay the lawyer fees. She struck first to get a better judge. Judge shopping is a tactic that liberals use to their advantage. Mt Bethel and other churches need to start filing suits first. Quit waiting for them to play nice. Get in the gutter where she lives
Comment by Matk on July 14, 2021 at 10:03 pm
Interestingly, though not unexpectedly, the Atlanta Journal notes that the UMC is united by, and generally expected to adhere to, the Discipline, but fails to note the breach of the Discipline by liberal leaders like Haupert…yet another example of how a biased narrative gets in circulation and influences naive individuals.
Comment by John67 on July 14, 2021 at 10:13 pm
Bishop Sue is making room at the welcoming table by kicking faithful Methodists off their chairs.
Comment by Jeff on July 14, 2021 at 10:22 pm
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. And on her forehead a name written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
Comment by Pastor Mike on July 14, 2021 at 11:53 pm
This “Bully Bishop” reminds me very much of a former female Bishop of mine who called me into her office once (without someone to be my representative; only my D.S. was there), and she spent over an hour reading me the riot act, accusing me of things, and basically (I believe) trying to drive me to turn in my credentials.
Because I’m a traditional white male pastor, to have defended myself or pushed back at all would have been seen as male aggression on my part – I’ve seen female Bishops and D.S.’s do this to male pastors a number of times – we can’t “win” in these situations. So I feel for both appointed pastors caught in this mess!
Meanwhile, Bishop Haupert-Johnson has not only foolishly dug herself a deep dirty hole, she’s dragged her district superintendents and conference Trustees down in it with her! How long before they all regret getting involved in this disgusting money-grab with her? As someone else has already said, even if she somehow wins this fight (which I doubt), she will lose any respect or credibility from laity and other clergy (liberal, centrist and conservative) from around her conference. But I suspect she is mostly confirming what many of them already knew about her.
As usual, traditionalists-conservatives build things (ministries, people, etc.); liberals-progressives tear them down and destroy them. It seldom goes the other way.
Comment by Andrew Hughes on July 15, 2021 at 7:34 am
Amen
Comment by David S. on July 15, 2021 at 10:09 am
I had a UMC minister within that Conference tell me recently that the issue was over money, i.e. assessment money withheld. But, I hadn’t thought about it from the other angle, the money tied up in church property also.
However, as a banker turned bank regulator, church property is a specialized asset with limited uses. It may appraise for X amount, but that does not the seller will fully receive the appraised value. Furthermore, if this is over the value of the church property, among other things, then liberal clerics need not lecture about God and mammon, when they are clearly worshipping mammon.
It is also interesting to see the tack three differing denominations with trust clauses have taken. TEC was at first conciliatory, but then had (and I will say it) an apostate, bullying, false teacher, masquerading as a bishop, elected as Presiding Bishop, who decided that it was more important to go to court over money and property rights even as the plaster was actually falling from the ceiling around her head at the denominational headquarters. With the exception of legal action in process, I would hope that the current Presiding Bishop has decided to take a more conciliatory approach with individual congregations.
PC(USA) decided to let the presbyteries decide, but most seems to have decided after seeing the disastrous results of the TEC, which spent upwards of $50+ million, it is estimated to win the battle, but in the end loose the war, to follow a negotiated exit to include a waiver of the trust clause. The heavy-handed, go to court approach seems to be generally used when a recalcitrant congregation (or a presbytery’s leadership) was not attempting to negotiate in good faith.
The UMC seems to want to avoid court altogether under the Protocol approach, and one would seem to think that while not yet officially ratified, UMC bishops would follow that spirit of the Protocol for churches desiring to leave now to the extent possible under current standards. But it seems that the bishops are being selective in their approach, much as TEC bishops were prior to the apostate being installed as Presiding Bishop. Sure, let Glide leave with apparently nominal fuss, but heave forbid a biblically faithful congregation express a desire to leave. Fight those people at all costs.
Comment by Steve on July 15, 2021 at 10:53 am
The decent thing for the bishop to do is to respect the moratorium on action pending the next General Conference’s vote on the Protocol like the traditionalists are doing on the LGBT rules passed in 2019. But now since she has breached that decency, shouldn’t the traditionists now start enforcing the Discipline as passed in 2019? Start the filings!
Comment by Donald Link on July 15, 2021 at 10:56 am
I would simply note that Baptists invest each congregation with authority over their own property and internal affairs. Easy to see why President Lincoln stated that he admired Baptist organization. This and other stresses would seem to indicate that the “United” part of the Methodist church is fast departing.
Comment by John Smith on July 15, 2021 at 2:07 pm
A Bishop running amok, how normal. The methodist model is fundamentally flawed. If the follow on denomination does not implement an accountability structure outside of and independent from the Bishops history will repeat itself. Remember where the drift and rot started. Seminaries and Bishops teaching contrary to and condoning/encouraging behavior contrary to scripture and the BOD.
Until the Bishops are accountable to someone besides each other the abuse of power and position will continue.
Comment by Loren J Golden on July 16, 2021 at 9:25 am
It is often said, “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” This is not precisely true, for God is most certainly not corrupt, although He possesses absolute power.
Rather, power enhances the corruption already present in the human heart because of the Fall, and the world has witnessed the effects of the worst that can happen when evil men have been entrusted with too much power in history’s dictators, from Nimrod to Pol Pot.
Sadly, the pattern of power enhancing the corruption of the human heart has been witnessed within the pale of the Church. Perhaps the most egregious example has been the Inquisition. Yet we see it even today in church bureaucrats who abuse their position to oust faithful ministers of the Word from their pulpits, where they have been endeavoring to “preach the word…in season and out of season” (II Tim. 4.2), solely because they disagreed with the bureaucrats’ political agenda.
And Ms. Haupert-Johnson has done this and more, seeking to oppress the people of God through the theft of their property and harrying them out of her jurisdiction, egregiously abusing her power in the name of “love”. “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter … who acquit the guilty for a bribe and deprive the innocent of his right!” (Is. 5.20,22)
Comment by betsy on July 16, 2021 at 9:33 am
Ted A. Campbell has written a series of 3 very insightful articles identifying the historical nature of the current un-tying of the United Methodist Church. They can be found at firebrandmag.com. In the second article, he deals with the rise of different caucuses within the American UMC that ultimately work against each other. This statement explains Bishop Haupert’s actions and her perception that she is operating out of “love”:
“Those who began new caucus groups saw themselves as faithful United Methodists committed to the good of the whole denomination. But caucus structures and activities allowed group members to focus on very particular agendas, often headed in opposite directions from members of other caucus groups, making it increasingly difficult to work together as a denomination. ” https://firebrandmag.com/articles/the-un-tying-of-the-united-methodist-church-part-2
Beginning with GC2012, I started cruising the internet listening to every UMC voice I could find. It did not take me long to realize that people were literally “talking apples and oranges” to each other because everybody was coming from very different understandings of what it means to be a Christian of the United Methodist persuasion. The perception that when two Methodists come together there are three opinions is a very accurate description of how the Methodist/United Methodist Church has been functioning for a very long time. For a long time Bishops have been juggling all the different viewpoints attempting to keep as many people placated as possible. The Way Forward Process and GC2019 and its aftermath revealed the true animosity much of UMC leadership, including Bishops, have towards the traditionalist understandings.
Comment by Lee Cary on July 16, 2021 at 9:51 am
John Smith wrote: “The methodist model is fundamentally flawed. ”
Absolutely spot-on Mister Smith.
Perhaps, once-upon-a-time, pre-1960’s, the organizational configuration worked. No longer. It’s been dead for decades.
Where I live, independent non-denominational congregations are popping up like convenience stores after the oil companies realized they could sell more than gas.
The future church builds new, or accommodates existing structures into worship centers that don’t match the conventional church architecture.
The tall steeple church building in the city center is a relic of the pre-1960 era. The land is more valuable than the building (unless the inner city is dying). With a dwindling, aging congregation, its per-capita maintenance costs go up yearly. 157 worshippers shuffle around in a sanctuary on Sunday morning that once hosted 600.
Church buildings now in a transitional neighborhood (read moving from middle into distressed class) were often well built with brick and steel), but now the roof leaks and the cost of repair/replacement it is too high. And the newer church buildings constructed in the burbs were often build by the Bird Construction Co, (cheap-cheap). Residential rather than commercial construction. Staple guns and #2 pine. No concrete or steel holding it up.
In the meantime, the UMC hierarchy and prominent clergy focus on protocols and property dispersion plans between “Traditionalists” and “Progressives”.
As the ‘theology’ of the UMC morphs into a sexual preference face-off. and the UMC hollows out and becomes a sham of its past.
Comment by Steven on July 16, 2021 at 11:01 pm
The congregation should tie it up in court to gain leverage. It’s a shame this unchristlike behavior has permeated the conference. The congregation has no choice of the offer to mediate is rejected.
These are truly awful times in the Methodist church. The separation will be ugly and bitter.
I have concluded if my church in the Florida conference remains, my family will be finding a mew hint. This is truly disgraceful behavior.
Comment by Wayne on July 17, 2021 at 1:05 am
Interesting to note the following from the bishop’s conference bio:
“Bishop Haupert-Johnson was a federal law clerk and a litigator with the Tampa law firm of Carlton, Fields before she answered her call to ministry.”
No wonder she knows so much about the law and lawsuits. Her education includes Business Administration and the law. Nice combo, but I have to wonder what drew her toward the ministry as a career. Power? Prestige? Control? It seems unlikely that her heart is truly for the Gospel. Otherwise, why spend so much time harassing a conservative church? This woman has no business being a bishop! Thanks Mark for providing Sue’s phone number and email address to contact her. May God’s people prevail against this tyranny and injustice!
Comment by Henry Stokes on July 17, 2021 at 6:07 am
To judge the success of a church by growth of attendance — the only evidence cited in this article to support the pastor’s success — ignores much more important criteria. Might as well compare a congregation to a television audience rating.
The reference to “rainbow flag” ministers reveals what drives this diatribe.
Comment by Jeffrey Walton on July 19, 2021 at 9:02 am
Henry, you’re correct that church attendance is not the only mark of success — but it is one of the few objective metrics that are tracked and reported across the denomination.
Comment by George on July 17, 2021 at 8:40 am
Well, just what would be your “more important criteria” for judging a pastor’s success?
Maybe the number of same sex marriages he / she performs? Or maybe being the grand marshal of a pride parade. Could it be teaching CRT to the kids Sunday school? You might like a big rainbow flag next to the alter. What would it be? Tell us, please.
Comment by Stephanie Jenkins on July 17, 2021 at 9:07 am
I walked away from the Episcopal Church after 72 years. Diocese of Texas voted to give reparations. Also some of those who voted for Trump were told we weren’t Christians if we did that. I was tired of politics, bishops, constant changing of main ideas. Now going to home church. Less drama, more scripture.
Comment by John on July 17, 2021 at 9:35 am
Parishioners that believe in the Current Discipline in all Methodist Congregations need to band together & organize. The liberals in the church are doing that. That’s why This Bishop felt empowered to go after the assets of this church. We need leaders that will organize our membership with Traditional values to fight back. This Bishop along with Oliveto & others that aren’t following church doctrine need to be fired they are not Methodists. But someone needs to step up and organize the true Methodists…..
Comment by John67 on July 17, 2021 at 2:26 pm
Wayne,
The church depends a lot on trust.
The Bishop studied law so she could be a trust-buster.
Comment by Jim Radford on July 18, 2021 at 10:50 am
I thought that I was done with this website, but the strong-arm move by the North Georgia Conference bishop to arbitrarily seize control and the assets of Mt Bethel UMC (or ANY church) is unacceptable, and I cannot resist saying something about it. Haupert-Johnson’s actions are totally wrong. What she has done, in my mind, is reprehensible. Using the language of “love” to justify her actions is beyond egregious. It’s a lie. She may be a duly elected bishop, but she is no “episcopos,” as John Wesley would have defined it, and I certainly do not consider her a spiritual authority or an authentic supervisor. Thanks for including a phone number and email address. I’m going to let her know my mind. However, I hope that people who contact the North Georgia Conference in order to express their dissent won’t be ugly. There’s no need, and it’s not helpful to lambaste people. But I realize, too, that some will denounce her as being a devil from hell (as some here have already employed scriptural curses and condemnations). There’s no need. I myself despise schisms, even though I realize that in reality they will happen, and this particular one is going to happen, and is happening. From where I stand, however, there is an unloving and hateful attitude that is driving BOTH sides of this struggle. Still another reason that I have no desire to remain or identify with the existing liberal church, but , at the same time, don’t want to identify with the new pull-away church in which I sense a mean spirit. Disingenuities on both sides of the aisle.
Comment by George on July 18, 2021 at 12:14 pm
Maybe I misunderstand the scripture where He says hot or cold, but luke warm, I’ll spit you out. The traditionalists have sat on their hands way to long and allowed the secular world infest our church with their liberal theology. I’m sorry if what I have said has hurt someone’s tender feelings but I’m not a luke warm kind of person. What is going to happen is going to happen. Pick a side .
Comment by Lee Cary on July 19, 2021 at 9:02 am
Jim Radford:
You, sir, have clearly written the Truth. Thank you.
George:
Your advice to “pick a side” is incongruent with spitting it out.
Comment by Jim Radford on July 19, 2021 at 11:56 am
Thank you, Lee. I appreciate the kind comment, and the note to George concerning “picking a side,” which you rightly identified as incongruous. In view of “picking a side,” I have been attacked on this very website as being irrational and illogical, as incongruent (which I don’t in the slightest believe that I have been), as not having “changed a bit” (a dismissive dig about whether I have been truly converted), as preaching hopelessness, not to mention that I have been accused of misleading or damaging my congregations, of flaunting my ordination “in (people’s) faces (blatantly untrue), and of being “really a progressive,” which may have been the deepest cut of all. The progressive movement, which, in my mind, is merely an outgrowth of post-modernism’s skepticism and mistrust of any truth claims and claimants, is as distasteful to me as to any of you here. I am as committed to the 325 A.D. Nicene Creed, the 381 Second Ecumenical Council Constantinople Creed, the 451 Chalcedon Creed as any subscriber or contributor to the IRD. I am a Trinitarian first and last. And I love Jesus. I am also a lover of Plato and Aristotle, Paul, Thomas Aquinas, an Aristotelian, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, John and Charles Wesley, George Whitefield, and Jonathan Edwards. I am a devotee of scholars and Christians of more recent times, such as C.S. Lewis, G.K. Chesterton, Jacques Maritain, Karl Rahner, and R. C. (Robin) Zaehner (and Maritain, Rahner, and Zaehner are all Roman Catholics, for all of you anti-papists). The problem I seem to be having with schismatic Christians is that so many of them, meaning, so many of you here, “objectify” your perceived enemies, just as combatants do in warfare. One cannot afford to see the “enemy” as being human. He is she is a Nazi, a Jap, a Gook, and, now in this current cultural, social, ecclesial, not to mention philosophical, struggle, one is a “Progressive.” A couple of posts ago I agreed with one point that an Iliff Theology professor had made in a recent book concerning white Christianity. One point. Not with the bulk of what he was stating and suggesting (and quoting James Cone, an angry Black Liberation theologian). And the attacks came. I was castigated and treated with disrespect. One writer here addressed me as “O learned elder,” and actually put my ordained title, reverend, in quotes: “Reverend” Jim Radford. That was ugly, mean-spirited, and uncalled for. When I had the audacity to agree with a “progressive,” I was branded by some of the contributors here as “revealing my true progressive colors. That is untrue. But this is why, George and others, I’m not “picking a side.” I don’t have to a pick a side. And my Lord Jesus Christ is not only OK with it, I know in my heart-of-hearts that He has called to me to this particular view. And, in the light of this claim, if any of you call me a liar, and misrepresenting Jesus, you will be mistaken. Furthermore, Jesus said, “If you call your brother a fool, you will be in danger of hell fire.” Calling a brother a liar or a false prophet, to me, seems even worse. If this pull-out Global Methodist Church wasn’t already so full of staunch naysayers and angry critical Christians, then maybe I would have picked a side. Where are the leaders of this site, Mark and John? Why don’t you step in and defend Truth wherever it is, instead of fanning the flames of dissension and discord, and letting your constituents duke it out? There are persons like myself who totally understand the reasons for the split. And I am as opposed, not to LGBTQ PERSONS, but to LGBTQ as a viable expression of human sexuality, as any member of the IRD, the Good News, or the Wesleyan Covenant, and I am as upset about it as anyone. But I do not wish to identify with your angry fan base. I know way too many very vocal Christians that, in my mind, are giving Christianity a bad name. People see it and listen to the angry rhetoric, and they say to themselves, “If this is what it means to be an authentic Christian, then you can forget about it.” So, yes, I am sick of this. I am beyond sick of this. And with this new panacea, this Global Methodist Church–and I am still waiting to hear of church trials and the defrocking of ministers who don’t appease the status quo–it is just beginning. You think that the Lord Jesus is pleased with all this polarization? I think not. I know not.
Comment by Brother Thom on July 19, 2021 at 1:00 pm
I have said this so many times, but it bears repeating. All traditional United Methodists should immediately withhold tithes and offerings until next year’s vote. They should be encouraged to hold their tithes in savings or money market accounts for later tithing to the new church under the new denomination. Church funds on hand should be depleted if necessary to pay mortgages, insurance, salaries, and utilities.
Mt. Bethel should immediately stroke a check to cover Pastor Ray’s salary, insurance, housing, and incidental expenses covering the months until the vote. More so the church’s finance team should run audits of tithes and offerings of all giving units for at least the last five years, and provide refunds to each to be deposited into their private savings or money market accounts.
If this sounds draconian, look hard at what UMC bishops are trying to do. This is about the money, more than anything else.
Comment by George on July 19, 2021 at 2:26 pm
Jim, you just may be too thin skinned for this line of work. After learning all those creeds and reading all those philosophers, you feel any criticism of you is disrespect. So you have been called a progressive. Oh ! The pain you must endure. Did you ever think that if that much criticism is coming your way, that maybe some of it is warranted?
And now you cry out and point a finger at Mark and John for not taking up for you. You blast the not yet formed Global Methodist Church for future church trials and defrocking of ministers. Really? Jim, you have picked a side. You just don’t know it.
Comment by Bruce Willis on July 19, 2021 at 2:47 pm
This kind of stuff is exactly why I left the UMC as a pastor. I am now pastoring in the Nazarene church. People are exactly right.
This is about money, power and control.
Money is in and of itself not evil but the love of money is. They care more for the institution than the local church.
From my personal experience as a pastor in the UMC let me say this. The Pharisees are alive and well in the UMC and carry the title of bishop. 2nd Timothy 4:1-5
Bruce Willis
Comment by David Harrison on July 19, 2021 at 10:04 pm
The Officers of that particular “church” may elect/vote to sell the property and all related assets of the corporation for one dollar to a designated non-denominational organization. The congregation may continue to assemble and worship in the facility as a new legal entity.
Comment by Lee Cary on July 19, 2021 at 10:44 pm
Bruce Willis:
Yes to all you wrote. And thank you, sir.
Lee Cary
Comment by Brother Thom on July 20, 2021 at 5:22 am
Bruce Willis speaks the truth. My own personal experience with Bishop Hope Morgan Ward of the North Carolina Conference is indicative of the evil that lurks behind the title bishop. This is why I have said the GMC does not need bishops. Let a small core group manage the GMC until the first General Conference. Then hold elections for offices to oversee the denomination under the leadership of a president. Too many in the church have their heads wrapped up in being a bishop and holding that title. This isn’t the Catholic church, get over that and move on.
Comment by Jeff on July 20, 2021 at 5:39 am
Jim Radford says: “You think that the Lord Jesus is pleased with all this polarization? I think not. I know not.”
Do we really need to wonder What Would Jesus Say? Or shall we let you, Jim Radford, put words in our Savior’s mouth? Jesus the CHRIST, the same yesterday, today, and forever, already spoke:
“Do you think I have come to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! For from now on there will be five in one household divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” [Luke 12:51-53 NET]
Or Matthew 10 if you prefer.
The WORD is by His very nature divisive! (Heb. 4:12)
Comment by George on July 20, 2021 at 6:54 am
Thank you Jeff. Some use man made creeds and ancient philosophers instead of going straight to the greatest source of all. They blame the Methodist Church schism on those who say no to abortion. No to sanctioned same sex marriage. No to the ridicule of Israel.
When was the last time you heard a Methodist preacher challenge his church to stand firm on these issues. Out of fear that their DS and Bishop can hurt their careers, they bury their heads in the sand. And then the blame is pointed to those who trust the scriptures and follow the book of discipline. This is all happening because we sat in those pews and said nothing when we had the chance.
Comment by Anthony on July 20, 2021 at 9:42 am
John, you point out – “But reportedly without respecting the Discipline’s required consulting process, Mt. Bethel senior pastor Jody Ray was abruptly notified last spring that he would be moved away from the congregation.” Not only was he being removed from this congregation to a conference office, he was being removed from the pulpit of any congregation in the North GA Conference . Neon flashing light — she was benching him, taking him away from his CALL TO PREACH THE GOSPEL which he was doing faithfully and most exemplary (still is as of this posting as a “lay preacher” at Mt Bethel) Go to Mt Bethel website and view a worship service. Haupert-Johnson is a bishop, a Christian, a normal human being for wanting to harm this church?
John, you go on to point out — “In late April, Ray explained that “we would likely be in a very different place” if Haupert-Johnson had approached him earlier and given him a chance to discuss, shape, and pray about the new conference staff position to which she had wanted to move him, but “there was no conversation or consultation at all.” BIGGER FLASHING LIGHT — this “new” position HAD BEEN OCCUPIED for the previous five years by the Rev Brian Tillman as Chair of the Conference Commission on Religion and Race — also know as THE MINISTRY OF RACIALRECONCILIATION. It has to be noted that Rev. Tillman has done extensive work in this area and is eminently qualified, likely more than any other in the North GA Conference.
Since creating the crisis at Mt Bethel, Haupert-Johnson has played her favorite card, the deception card by giving Rev. Tillman a new title. This begs the question, why wasn’t Rev. Tillman given the bishop’s “new” critical position on racial reconciliation in the first place in that he was already successfully fulfilling such a role while holding all the credentials and experience necessary to do so?
Finally, since Haupert-Johnson’s arrival in 2016, the North Ga Conference has lost 21,512 members. It had grown by 46,050 members between 2,000 and her arrival.
Comment by Jim Radford on July 20, 2021 at 11:09 am
George, I am not all thin-skinned. My feelings are not hurt because I am being a called a progressive (even though it’s more-often-than-not by other fellow-Christian brothers and sisters, by the way). I am not “crying out” to Mark Tooley or John Lomperis to “take up” for me. I have no need for anyone to take up for me. I am trying to address a not-so-subtle spirit within this forum wherein there are some–some, not all–who seem to hate Progressives even more than they love Jesus. If a progressive makes a valid point, why not acknowledge it? If, for example, Iliff professor Dr. Miguel De La Torre stated that white Christianity favors white people, I understand that there are those who will disagree. But, in asking the question of other Christians, I have gotten the same answer: he’s right. When I asked the question “What’s not true about that?” I was hammered. I’m not concerned about being disagreed with. I am concerned, however, with what I believe to be the truth. And if a Progressive makes a true statement, is he or she to be lambasted because of the camp from which he or she originates? Again, I expect disagreement. What I don’t expect, George, is to be accused of being lukewarm. That’s not even in the ballpark true. My last parish was made up of perhaps the most liberal progressive–not to mention erudite–parishioners that I have ever encountered (five master degrees, two PhD university professors, three medical doctors, three nuclear physicists, and a bucket-load of baccalaureate degrees). One masters-level parishioner said to me, point-blank, “Why do you keep preaching about the Cross? I don’t understand the need to focus on a blood sacrifice. If Jesus told us to “love one another,” why don’t we just do that?” Sound familiar? That seems to be the litany of a great many progressive post-modern people. I told this woman–and very patiently, I might add–that if she thought that she could meet the threshold of love as God defined it in Jesus Christ APART from Jesus Christ, then good luck with that. Personally, I said to her, I cannot. I told her that I preach the need for a Savior because I need to be saved, and I cannot save myself. Further, I shared with her that, for me, there are two incontrovertible and non-negotiable scriptural truths: 1) the life of the flesh is in the blood; and 2) without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Someone here on this site asked the question, “When was the last time you heard a Methodist preacher challenge his church to stand firm on these issues (which included abortion and same-sex marriages).” If you had come to the church I served, you would have heard it consistently. And I did so in one of the very dens of progressivism. Throughout the congregation, within the first two weeks of my appointment there, I heard the refrain, “Now I know that Jesus is not the only way….” I not only took issue with it, I addressed it directly from the pulpit. And I spoke loudly. I made mention of the fact that I had been hearing that notion–that Jesus is not the only way–spoken in those very words from several individuals there, and I made it known in no uncertain terms that it was wrong, and that it was out of order. This one issue was one of many within that group of progressive Christians (and I am no longer serving there, incidentally). The challenge for me was to correct them, challenge them, confront them, without attacking them, or without throwing them under the bus. All I am saying here to both liberal progressive Christians and conservative evangelical Christians alike, “Come, let us reason together.” If our arguments are sound–and they should be more sound and more convincing then the “other side,” meaning, the progressives, we would win the day. But I don’t intend to suggest that we merely “out argue” the other side; I do intend to suggest that we “speak the truth in love.” This is why I have opposed the schism. I have always maintained, and I am speaking to many of you fine, thoughtful, and articulate people, I think that we are more knowledgeable than the progressives, and we have the truth on our side. And, as you all know, Jesus said, “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” Incidentally, Jeff, I want you to know that for years I have quoted relentlessly that entire passage that you so aptly used in the above post: “I have not come to bring peace, but a sword….” Jesus warned, in that same passage, that “…a man’s foes shall be those of his own household.” For any of you exegetes out there who may argue that Jesus was referring to Jews–Pharisees and Sadducees, in particular–I want to suggest that he was talking to all of us. In other words, the statement that “a man’s enemies shall be those of his own family,” also includes the family of God. I’m seeing that right here on this IRD site. I continue to assert: I am not your enemy. Stop treating me like one.
Comment by Jeff on July 20, 2021 at 11:55 am
Jim Radford, George hit the nail right on the head. You’re simply too thin-skinned for this line of work. You confuse “disagreement with your statements and views” as “treating you like an enemy”.
You’re not my enemy, but I rarely agree with you, mainly because it’s “all about you” and your “feelings”. You don’t offer any support for your positions other than your opinion and the occasional anecdote.
“If a progressive makes a valid point, why not acknowledge it?”
When it comes to making a point, especially one with no supporting reason, the one making the point doesn’t get to decide that the point has been made. That’s up to the reader. But, tell you what, if as a progressive you ever truly make a supported, well-reasoned valid point, I likely WILL acknowledge it, simply because I believe in objective truth. I can’t say what I’ll do for sure, because with you, it’s never happened. 😉
Comment by Jim Radford on July 20, 2021 at 12:53 pm
Really, Jeff,
Is it all about me? Or, am I making it about me? I don’t at all think so. When persons such as yourself use in your discourse (and accusations, by the way) terms such as “non sequitur,” or “logical fallacies,” then I would expect you to identify what they are exactly. Go back and look at your own posts, particularly your responses toward my comments. I’m not so thin-skinned so as not to challenge you or others here on the site who are salivating for this new Global church. You need to be coherent and consistent. That’s all I’m saying. God Bless your life.
Comment by George on July 20, 2021 at 5:26 pm
Jim, you say it’s our anger towards the progressives and the zeal we have in wanting to finalize this separation that cause you to call us out. Ok, that’s fine and I can accept that criticism. Ask why there is anger. Ask why we are ready to split as soon as possible.
Maybe some of it is because of the delay . I think mostly it’s because we are sick and tired and ready to move on. Will our church, the one we helped build and supported with our tithes, still be our home? Or will we need to go elsewhere? Leave the church where our children were baptized. Where our daughter was married. Where our parents funeral was held. Break ups are messy. They hurt. And yes Jim, it brings out some anger. The longer this takes, the more angst you will encounter. It’s normal. You don’t like it nor do most of us. And don’t forget, moves like the “Bully Bishop” made will cause more anger. She and her radical pals stoke this anger we feel. When you think of me, think of Howard Beale in the movie “Network”. I want to lift my window and yell ………..
Comment by Joan Sibbald on July 21, 2021 at 3:29 pm
There are two groups: feminists (abortion) and LGBTQ… (Let It All Hang Out!) who were allowed by “appeasers” to incrementally take control of every facet of America’s, Canada’s, and, Western Europe’s, culture. Why is anyone surprised they are now taking control of Christianity and biology?
Proverb 17:13: “If you repay evil for good evil will never leave your house.”
Comment by Pat on July 26, 2021 at 5:43 pm
THIS – this is exactly why I left the UMC many years ago. I loved my church job (lay staff) for nearly fourteen years – until an evil minister was appointed. Yes, he was evil – and I don’t use that word lightly. We’d had our share of duds for senior ministers along with some very good ones whom we loved, and we’d had a couple of foolish bullies – but nothing to compare to the likes of this one. He had a long history of abusing each staff and congregation, and the system simply moved him (and the others) around from church to church without applying any consequences to bad behavior. We got him because his previous church lied about him to our SPR committee and said that we would absolutely love him. They weren’t going to lose the opportunity to get rid of him.
Our church was just another one of his victims. He ran the youth minister off first (seems they are always expendable, along with the music directors) and then went after me. I dreaded going to work every day. My immediate boss was sick that he couldn’t defend me. He was afraid of being fired and losing his insurance, because his wife was very ill with cancer at the time. The SPR committee was utterly horrified when they learned of the abuse I had endured for over six months (all thoroughly documented, and these committee members had known me since I was a teenager) and they made this minister apologize to me. I accepted his apology but knew he was lying the whole time, not to mention seething over being forced to make the concession speech. He left me alone after that but moved on to harassing the next staff member. Every bit of joy I ever had in my work was crushed, and I left a few months later. By the time he was moved on to another church, all but two staff members had quit, and those two were at an age where jobs with decent insurance weren’t readily available. I have never stopped feeling guilty because I got out before my immediate boss was able to find another job, and he is a dear, wonderful man who deserved so much better. The abuse he received at work was bad enough, but that it happened during the devastating illness of his wife was beyond unconscionable. This minister had no conscience. The system knew it but did nothing to correct him.
This bully behavior has been going on for MANY years in the UMC at all levels, and has been embraced as perfectly acceptable. Not only are their outrageous actions fully supported by the system, but these characters are rewarded with higher positions and tidy retirement packages. This ugly action against Mount Bethel is just another revelation of their true agenda, about which they have become increasingly brazen and defiant. How can their actions possibly be perceived as Christian behavior? If people think that this is what being a Christian is all about, then it’s no wonder that the UMC is losing members at such a rate.
After reading the above comments and stories, there seem to be quite a few of us expats out there. People often cannot conceive that clergy can be so destructive.
Mount Bethel members, HOLD STRONG. Many of us out here might not be members but that doesn’t mean we don’t hope and pray that you will prevail in this despicable situation. The sooner you get out from under their control, the better. Do not be afraid to do what is necessary as you stand up for yourselves and for what is right. The Conference has demonstrated by their words and actions that they cannot be reasoned with. Discussion will not resolve the rift. This has nothing to do with love and it’s all about power and control. Our prayers of support are with you.
Comment by Anthony on July 29, 2021 at 9:30 am
Message from North Georgia Conference Board of Trustees
7/28/2021
The Board of Trustees of the North Georgia Conference and Mt. Bethel UMC have issued the following joint statement:
Mt. Bethel UMC and the North Georgia Conference of The United Methodist Church have jointly agreed to use their best efforts to resolve an ongoing dispute through a mediation process and will refrain from public comment on this matter until the mediation process has concluded. Mt. Bethel Christian Academy will also be included in the mediation process.
Comment by Anthony on August 12, 2021 at 6:22 pm
The North GA Conference Board of Trustees has reportedly moved reserve funds into a legal fees account in anticipation. A defense fund for Mt Bethel has been established. Mt Bethel is the point church for traditionalists now in this battle.
GO TO THE MT BETHEL FUND AND CONTRIBUTE NOW:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/contending-for-the-faith-with-mt-bethel-umc