African Methodists: ‘General Conference Did Not Listen to Us’

Comment by Mike Thompson on May 3, 2024 at 12:29 pm

I think many Methodists are sighing with relief that they no longer are influenced, nor controlled, by the opinion of people who would like to criminalize the very existence of LGBT people. They are hardly the ones to follow on moral issues. I pray for the poor LGBT who live there.

Comment by Kathleen Vail on May 3, 2024 at 12:49 pm

The African church will eventually decline as well. Truth be told, as education increases religiosity goes down. As John Shelby Spong famously declared, Christianity must change or die. It has chosen to die instead. Religion is quickly becoming an outdated, and unnecessary, vestige of human progress.

Comment by Dan W on May 3, 2024 at 2:02 pm

These are all signs. God is telling us to choose a side. The time is short, choose wisely. Your eternal soul depends on it. Hint – the right choice does not involve deception, or the breaking of covenants.

Comment by John on May 3, 2024 at 2:45 pm

Since they won’t share the name of Mainstream UMC leader or the bishop referenced in the statement, we have to treat these as anonymous accusations. Neither of the accusers have come forward publicly nor given the accused opportunity to explain themselves. Until we have some verifiable information I think we must treat these accusations as heresay.

News coverage of the protest stated that around 65 African delegates were present, which would not be anything near a majority of the delegation. Jerry Kulah has taken the floor several times during conference to claim he speaks for all Africa (or all of Liberia) and been quickly been rebuffed by other African delegates, so we should take any claims from him to speak for the majority with a grain of salt considering his history of exaggeration in this regard. The Committee on Credentials for General Conference gave a detailed report explaining the issues that led to absence of some of the African delegation. I think in the interest of fairness and transparency the recording of this report should be shared on this page. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXzrDVrJ8Uc

Finally some perspective. The removal of language from the BOD deemed by progressives as harmful to LGBTQ persons was approved by 93% of the conference, which would mean the majority of the Africans present also voted in favor in the change. The main regionalization amendment passed by over 78%, with African delegates being among those who spoke in support of the amendment. Of those speaking against it, only one spoke out against the principle of regionalization itself, while the other two took issue with the continued presence of jurisdictions and the number of conferences in Africa. One of the delegates speaking against it was American. The sections of the Revised Social Principles concerning human sexuality and marriage also passed at General Conference by 70%. Let’s be clear about one thing. In all of these instances, the presence of the entire African delegation at General Conference would not have changed the outcome of any of these votes. Any accusation that these changes were passed illegitimately and do not represent the will of a quorum elected voice of worldwide United Methodist Church are false.

Comment by David on May 3, 2024 at 2:46 pm

There are too many social differences between Africa and North America. They are better off having their own denomination.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna33356826

Comment by John on May 3, 2024 at 2:59 pm

David,

I disagree. I think we are better and stronger together. These stories you post are tragic, but let’s not pretend that child abuse isn’t an equally tragic evil in our Western churches as well. I have not heard any report of United Methodist pastors in Africa abusing children accused of witchcraft and am confident that any offenders would be charged under the Book of Discipline, defrocked, and condemned by the global of leadership of The UMC across four continents in the strongest terms (as well as by our estranged brethren in The GMC, I’m sure). This is not a time for us to move away from each other into our own silos, but to listen to each other better. I freely admit The UMC could have done better at this in the past.

Comment by Mark Flynn on May 3, 2024 at 3:49 pm

No matter what the explanation is for the absence of so many African delegates, it matters that they are not there. The way that this makes them feel also matters. The way that it makes other African United Methodists feel also matters. It also matters that some American delegates have been downright rude to some African delegates. We could do so much better.

Comment by John on May 3, 2024 at 5:51 pm

African Methodism is not monolith. Let’s hear the voices of ALL our African brethren. https://mainstreamumc.com/blog/african-voices-are-not-monolithic/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR33ihJ4jTXTmRngfs81C7l4VTdK0NpW50iuw-oUoLeCjI90OP4W9wY_TJM_aem_ARdWaqVGjHHDAF9J4Pg6p81eg4_fII1ssMXaB-u6pc1YDHjxBz2oy7NQ8toP6Vo0gBUFPWtjl0dN-0qEemz9gubw

Comment by MikeB on May 3, 2024 at 8:59 pm

Kathleen Vail, If Christ has not risen from the dead, then none of this matters, you and your ilk have taken over a pointless social club of fools stolen their money and property, and thrown them out into the night.
If indeed and in Body, Christ has risen as the Word says, then be forewarned that He is coming, in the flesh and in power. Every Christian could be killed and that would not decrease his glory or power one iota.
You have picked your side that he is not risen, I have picked my side before God and man.

Comment by Diane on May 4, 2024 at 12:58 am

Good grief, get over yourselves and deal with it. The rest of the world appreciates that you will no longer be endlessly bickering. You’re now officially divorced. It’s OK to mourn, but do it with grace and make your own paths.

Thanks.

Comment by Different Steve on May 4, 2024 at 10:26 am

So is Diane going to take her own advice and move on? Of course not! She’s never going to stop trolling here. Never, never, never.

Comment by MikeB on May 4, 2024 at 12:18 pm

Diane,
What you miss is that those who left believe Christ to be real, that his commands mean far more than any cultural niceties.

I will tell you the future, the United Methodists are running out of purpose, the desire to take the reigns of power that gave purpose to the bishops are now gone. The hard power to hold property is now finalized. Now comes the individuals who will move away silently, who will stop donating as they stop caring. The UM will be not more than a Lions Club with no Lions, a bunch of middle managers managing investment accounts and selling off empty property.

This is your future;
Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living, and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the names of sons. Childless lords sat in aged halls musing on heraldry; in secret chambers withered men compounded strong elixirs, or in high cold towers asked questions of the stars.

Comment by Thomas on May 4, 2024 at 1:49 pm

“The Church never suits the particular mood of any age, because it was made for all ages. A Catholic [or a Methodist] knows that if the Church married the mood of any age in which it lived, it would be a widow in the next age.” (Archbishop Fulton Sheen) Thats exactly what will happen with UMC. It will be gone if few decades, because their apostasy and endorsement of an anti-Christian theology. The future of orthodox Methodism now lies in GMC and other similarly orthodox churches.

Comment by Thomas on May 4, 2024 at 2:13 pm

For all the African delegates who were present, please join the Global Methodist Church, who will welcome you all as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Comment by GinVA on May 4, 2024 at 10:18 pm

Didn’t the Espicopal Church also start with an “all may but none must” policy with regard to performing same sex marriage? Then in short order the conservative or moderate dioceses were forced to accept same sex marriage with the Albany NY diocese being one of the last holdouts. I assume the same will be the case with the UMC.

Comment by Jerry Clark on May 5, 2024 at 10:53 am

This is why the Global Methodist Church has been rolling in tithe monies while the UMC is going both morally, spiritually and financially bankrupt.

Comment by David on May 5, 2024 at 1:59 pm

Here are some statistics regarding the belief in witchcraft in Africa.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/142640/witchcraft-believers-sub-saharan-africa-rate-lives-worse.aspx

Comment by John on May 5, 2024 at 8:53 pm

GinVa,

If we’re going to use the Episcopalian-North American Anglican split as an analogy, let me ask you this. How long do you think clergywomen will prosper in a GMC that doesn’t offer guaranteed appointments or the trust clause? When the North American Anglican Church first formed they recognized the call of women universally. Then slowly they made a matter for each diocese to decide. Now they are hardly any left

Comment by John on May 5, 2024 at 8:54 pm

GinVa,

If we’re going to use the Episcopalian-North American Anglican split as an analogy, let me ask you this. How long do you think clergywomen will prosper in a GMC that doesn’t offer guaranteed appointments or the trust clause? When the North American Anglican Church first formed they recognized the call of women universally. Then slowly they made a matter for each diocese to decide. Now they are hardly any left.

Comment by Thomas on May 6, 2024 at 10:06 am

I don`t support women`s ordination but there are several ACNA dioceses with plenty of women`s clergy. Tish Harrison Warren is the most known and she is solidly orthodox on matters of human sexuality and the sanctity of unborn human life. Its not an easy question to solve but hopefully in the future there will be only a female diaconate
As for the UMC apostasy its curious to see the total disresgard for the value of unborn human life to the point that they dismissed their value immediatally in their first General Conference. Their pro-abortion stance is so liberal, hypocrite and anti-Christian, totaly dismissive of the humanity and sanctity of the unborn, that might have been from an atheist convention. Same as their endorsement of all kinds of sexuality, inside and outside of marriage.

Comment by Thomas on May 6, 2024 at 10:11 am

“I am not afraid that the people called Methodists should ever cease to exist either in Europe or America. But I am afraid lest they should only exist as a dead sect, having the form of religion without the power. And this undoubtedly will be the case unless they hold fast both the doctrine, spirit, and discipline with which they first set out.” (John Wesley)

Comment by John on May 6, 2024 at 5:13 pm

Thomas,

Are you a Methodist? I’ll be honest. I don’t think anyone can truly claim to be a Wesleyan while insisting the church still make disciples with one hand tied behind its back by denying women the opportunity to become elders. Wesley recognized the preaching ability of women. He gave them his blessing to preach. In time I firmly believe he would have begun ordaining them, just as he ordained Thomas Coke. I was always aware that there were pockets of UMC people out there who never accepted women’s ordination, but you may be the first I’ve met who claims it so boldly. I have no doubt there are others who feel the same that have joined the new GMC. If I were a traditionalist clergywoman, I would be nervous about joining this new denomination.

Comment by Thomas on May 6, 2024 at 6:24 pm

I`m a Catholic supportive of ACNA and Global Methodist Church. I find curious how can someone can quote John Wesley while knowing that not even in his worst nightmares he would have endorsed what just happened in UMC. Let the dead bury their own dead.

Comment by Simon K on May 6, 2024 at 7:46 pm

I don’t see how Africa is going to survive in the UMC. The clear majority of Africans do not accept homosexuality (don’t take my word for it, check Pew’s surveys on acceptance of homosexuality worldwide). The evidence we have suggests that this view is not shifting to any great degree. If they choose to stay, the African conferences are going to get hammered by other denominations, and Muslims too. I think it is a question of when, not if, they decide to break away. It might happen this year, it might happen two or three years down the line, but it is going to happen. If the current African UMC bishops don’t want to break off, at some point they’ll likely be replaced by others that do.

Comment by Thomas on May 9, 2024 at 9:45 pm

Simon, most Africans already left, they don`t have any reasons to stay anymore.

Comment by John on May 12, 2024 at 6:46 pm

Thomas,

Do you have any evidence to back up that statement?

Comment by Roy H on May 13, 2024 at 8:53 pm

They want the Africans to go away and the sooner the better.

Comment by Thomas on May 15, 2024 at 9:35 am

“United Methodism’s governing General Conference, meeting currently in Charlotte, N.C., is enacting a sexual revolution within what used to be, until very recently, America’s third-largest religious group.
So far, in legislative committees, later to be ratified in plenary, delegates by wide margins are disconnecting sex from marriage or even monogamy. Until now, the United Methodist Church officially taught that “sexual relations are affirmed only with the covenant of monogamous, heterosexual marriage.”
But the proposed revision, OK’d by 75 percent in committee, says we “affirm human sexuality as a sacred gift and acknowledge that sexual intimacy contributes to fostering the emotional, spiritual, and physical well-being of individuals and to nurturing healthy sexual relationships that are grounded in love, care and respect.”
That’s it. No mention there of marriage or monogamy. Instead, it celebrates that sexuality is “expressed in wonderfully diverse ways.” And, “We affirm the rights of all people to exercise personal consent in sexual relationships, to make decisions about their own bodies and be supported in those decisions.”
From: https://wng.org/opinions/the-methodist-sexual-revolution-1714438355?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR13d196aUu0561o-7AWYZbrWELPzYbRzbnq-KX13yfss5GRtwYxdYzfvjs_aem_AanKf5rXg-Petn1a_8lZN9WgUJlp7zMWoaEGTkdoWapBn2xcHZlkdZjkf2yXTqLtkMDOxxF-zzEpw4yoeBhUiKXn

Comment by Thomas on May 15, 2024 at 9:36 am

Pray for the conversion of sinners, specially those who don`t recognize their own sins. I`m sure those left in UMC are worthy of GMC`s prayers, for their repentance and return or conversion to the true faith.