January 6, 2015

“Sad but Not Surprising”: Retired United Methodist Bishop Escapes Penalty

Institute on Religion and Democracy Press Release
January 6, 2015
Contact:  Jeff Walton office: 202-682-4131, cell: 202-413-5639, e-mail: jwalton@TheIRD.org


“This result is sad but not surprising. This failure shows our bishops cannot generally be trusted to hold each other accountable. We need to reform our processes to give others that responsibility.”

-UMAction Director John Lomperis

 

Washington, DC—In October 2013, long-retired United Methodist Bishop Melvin Talbert invaded the North Alabama territory of Bishop Debra Wallace-Padgett to perform a same-sex union, disregarding the protests of the latter and the leadership of the denomination’s Council of Bishops.  The United Methodist Church’s governing Discipline teaches that sex is only for marriage between one man and one woman, and forbids same-sex union ceremonies.

Active United Methodist bishops then voted overwhelmingly to call for formal complaints to be filed against Talbert by Wallace-Padgett and liberal Bishop Rosemary Wenner of Germany, then the Council of Bishops President.

Yesterday, over a year later, they announced a “just resolution” that protected Talbert from any penalty, while he vaguely agreed to “to live according to the Book of Discipline” without clearly apologizing. Other bishops participating in this process included Robert Hoshibata of Phoenix, who had publicly defended Talbert, and Elaine Stanovsky of Denver.

IRD’s United Methodist Action Director John Lomperis commented:

“This result is sad but not surprising. This failure shows our bishops cannot generally be trusted to hold each other accountable. We need to reform our processes to give others that responsibility.

“I welcome the resolution’s acknowledging the pain on all sides. But such professed concern rings hollow when coupled with such a weak, moral equivalency-touting response that will provoke even further conflict and pain.

“The resolution promotes endless ‘dialogue’ without saying a word about Scripture or the great pastoral harm done to the two gay men Talbert showcased for an unbiblical political act.

“People ordained in our denomination vow to commit to upholding our denomination’s doctrine and rules. But a vocally disruptive minority basically choose to dissemble their way through ordination. Future church historians will note how so much of United Methodism’s destructive turmoil today was driven not just by the lack of integrity of radicals like Talbert, but also by other bishops’ failure to stand up to them in a sustained way.

“This complaint was handled in the UMC’s radicalized Western Jurisdiction, which covers one-third of the United States but includes less than three percent of United Methodists, and is losing members faster than any other region. As San Francisco bishop, Talbert was known for excluding biblically faithful United Methodists in his area from leadership and driving many out of the denomination. He represents our church’s dysfunctional past, not its future.”

www.TheIRD.org


43 Responses to “Sad but Not Surprising”: Retired United Methodist Bishop Escapes Penalty

  1. Pudentiana says:

    The Lord is patient. I am struggling with this un-just resolution. I pray these bishops will repent for they must answer to their Maker and they have had such power and responsibility. He expects much. God save us from faithless shepherds.

  2. PadreDave says:

    How much time and money were wasted coming up with this “just
    resolution?” What does it really accomplish? It resolved nothing. Bishop Talbert was asked by a resident bishop
    not to come and perform that ceremony, but he did it anyway. (I don’t
    know why he should have to be asked not to do something that is clearly
    forbidden by our Discipline in the first place). But, having openly and
    deliberately violated the Discipline and ignoring off the warning of a
    resident bishop, what were the consequences? Nothing!!! No censure. No
    removal of credentials. No requirement to acknowledge the violation of
    our Discipline and pledge to never conduct such a violation again. No
    consequences at all! What a sad day for our denomination. The only thing
    this ‘just resolution’ did was to proclaim that our Discipline means
    absolutely nothing and pastors and bishops can violate it without fear.
    Basically
    our bishops addressed this most blatant disregard for our Discipline
    and polity by sitting around, singing ‘Kum Ba Yah,’ and telling our
    members to pray and discuss the issue some more. Wow, what leadership!
    This was not a ‘just resolution,’ rather is was ‘just a resolution’ to
    do nothing!

  3. Diaris says:

    The old saying was “There’s no fool like an old fool.” How about, “There’s no publicity ho like an old publicity ho”?

  4. Elizabeth Levesque says:

    I pastored at Queen Anne United Methodist, Seattle, WA, with my husband and 3 children in 1995-1996. My husband was on track for ordination. However, once we hosted a “Healing for Sexual Brokenness” Conference everything turned against us. Because powerful committee members who had gay sons worked to get us removed as assistant pastors. We lasted 9 months at Queen Anne United Methodist because of this. My husband got ordination somewhere else. We never looked back. And we have seen one Methodist church after another excuse gay clergy, cover for committee members with gay children, endorse gay committee members, run people who are vocal against this out of their churches. This is economic and spiritual terrorism for faithful pastors such as my husband and myself. Frank Schaeffer is a disgrace. He has 3 sons who are gay out of 4? Something is going on there. Molestation? I know if given the chance his wife would sing like a canary. But there is so much cover up in the Methodist Church it is disgusting. Almost as much as the Episcopal Church which is worse.

    • Ramon Estevez says:

      What a story. Thanks for sharing.

      • Elizabeth Levesque says:

        My story more common than you would think.

        • Namyriah says:

          I worked at the UM Publishing House in my younger days, and there were plenty of cover-ups going on at the national level too. One of the editors of children’s Sunday school literature was an “out” gay man and everyone on staff knew it, as he lived openly with his male companion (who worked for another UM agency), and there were other gay men and lesbians, most of them ordained clergy, in the UM’s bureaucracy, plus plenty of adulterous staffers and singles who slept around, so the odds of the UM ever taking a more biblical stand on sexual ethics are extremely remote. Liberals focus on global warming, immigration, gun control, etc, because they deflect attention away from their own sordid private lives.

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            I watched for 9 months while one “high up” Methodist at Queen Anne paraded their gay sons into church. Then all of a sudden things changed. The senior pastor was “voted out” and then we were. Our last “committee meeting” I noticed a very powerful woman in the church had wormed/weaseled her gay son onto the most powerful committee. Who approved the next pastors. Guess who was sitting next to her gay son on that committee? His openly gay lover. So both gay son and gay lover were now on the most powerful committee deciding who would be the next pastor. The senior pastor and my husband the assistant pastor, both Godly and Conservative Christian men were OUT! Well we could see the hand writing on the wall of this church. If you were Godly, Conservative, a family man with children, a Godly pastoral couple, like the Senior Pastor and My husband and myself, then you were OUT! So we left. And you know what? After we left they lost almost $200,000 in investment money. Because it was all about money and this uber Liberal gay and rich lifestyle in upper crust Queen Anne Hill in Seattle, WA. Can I say we gloated quite a bit at their financial loss? We did. I don’t know what is happening at that church now and I don’t care. They always hailed themselves as the “Pink Church’ on the corner. Well I guess they have replaced the “pink’ with the “rainbow” and I could care less. Every United Methodist Church who is doing this deserves what they get. A bunch of Godly and Biblical Christians leaving. I pray for the Exodus from the UMC everyday. That every single Godly and Biblical Methodist would leave and form a new communion. The sheep must get away from the goats. The wheat must separate from the chaff. Godliness and holiness and light have no fellowship with ungodliness, perversion and darkness. There are plenty of other places to go for Church and I encourage all Methodist who find themselves in these churches or organizations in the UMC to just leave. Let them take your buildings. Their end is known. It is absolutely known. And when the heat comes down from the Lord, when Heavenly Fire comes down from the Lord, which it will, do not be standing anywhere near these people. Get away from them as soon as possible. My advice. God Bless.

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            Openly gay? sure. And why not? I is not only allowed it is encouraged. And you know what Namyriah? It is a cover up. Because children get molested by these men. They hide out. They have men and boys. Then this acclimates the child to being gay. They get “oriented” by this group of sexual vipers. And they are everywhere. Is it any wonder that in addition to homosexuality there is adultery? That every manner of sexual perversion is practiced and celebrated? These are so UNSAFE for children. And how do they cover up for this house of sexual perversion? They focus on global warming, immigration, gun control. All a diversion. All a smoke screen. So nobody has to talk about the truth and the truth is this: The UMC is Sodom and Gomorrah. It is filth. Full of sexual filth and these are CRIMES against God, each other, and in many instances: children. This is a Culture of RAPE and violation. Homosexuality is Sexual Abuse. And Sexual ABuse is rampant in the Church. The Church is filthy. Every Church. The Curia in Rome. Roman Catholic Bishops. Timothy Dolan to name only one. The Episcopal Church under Gene Robinson and now Katherine Schiori. Full up of rape and sexual abuse. When a man does that with a man it is rape. And so how do they cover up this rape? They APPEAR MORAL in taking on some ‘mission” and “global cause’ and this is how they THINK their Sodom and Gomorrah, their constant rape and sexual violation will go unnoticed. FOOLS! All is known. they have sordid private lives mostly they DRINK tons of alcohol. I could go on. Suffice to say these people are usurpers. They like to say they are still “Christians.” but I laugh when they say that. They are no followers of Christ. In fact, they crucify Him over and over every day and all day long. They Hate Christ and Our heavenly Father and they prove it by their nasty sexual sodomy and rape every single day. And these are running the Church. The Roman Catholic Church. The UMC. ECUSA. Presbyterian Communion. Lutheran Communion. All Mainline and Roman Catholic. The stench of their sexual sin and perversion must be so thick in the nostrils of Our Lord. HE will act soon. He will do something. His purity, His holiness, His justice demands he stop this wickedness in His Church. And Frank Schaeffer has no idea what is coming down the pike from the Lord on this issue. To purposely orient 3 out of 4 male children to this? OMG! The Judgement on Franke Schaeffer and others. It is going to be so bad.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            Whoa, Elizabeth!
            Your love of the Church is not in question, but your immature and reactionary approach to those individuals who are devoted servants for God, is wrong!

            You’ve made hugely incorrect and unfounded accusations associating human genetic predispositions ( such as being Gay or Lesbian) with deviant behavior.

            True, the Catholic Church has developed a sick history of Priests violating acolytes and such, and for that they should be punished appropriately.
            Crimes deserve punishment!

            But to presume being Gay or Lesbian, as being sexually deviant is not only scientifically wrong, it’s ignorant and malicious!

            Causality is a legitimate thought process, but to think that one can purposely “orient” children from “Straight” to “Gay” (as you accused Rev. Schaeffer to have done with his sons), is absurd and ridiculous!

            Proof that ignorance is just as rampant as the claims you’ve made about Gays being lesser Christians.

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            Woe unto you sir! There is absolutely ZERO evidence for your assertions. In fact it is YOU that is unscientific and just plain promoting falsehoods.

            Go on about “causality” all you DARE but that is just a smoke screen for absolutely NO PROOF of your assertions.

            Biological researchers Rice and Ebers at Western Ontario Universiuty disproved the surreptitious “science” put out by gay activist Simon Levay and his equally sinister disciple Dean Hamer and showed that there is ZERO science behind anything having to do with any kind of “gay gene”

            You need to get your facts straight! You are ignorant and malicious spreading unscientific theories just so you can continue to promote perversion and mortal sin in the Church!

            I know for a fact that a woman I worked with “oriented’ her children this way. On purpose. She said so! She fed them one gay pride parade and teaching on “gay is okay” after another. And so did Schaeffer in the USMC.

            You are just as ignorant as the rest of your USMC colleagues in asserting that there is any science to being gay when in fact it is a behavior that is LEARNED from parents practicing it (as in Schaeffer) and it is a behavior that is also mimicked and also results from early molestation.

            I pastored gays for 25 years and they told me everything. all their molestation. All their orientations which were “groomed.”

            So you can take your ignorance and unfounded assertions and keep them. I could write an entire Series of books on the things that gays and lesbians told me in private as a pastor.

            I know this subject. I did graduate work on it at Fuller. So you have no idea who you are talking to.

            Don’t call a woman with a Masters Degree ignorant who had gay and lesbian as her thesis and heard and saw the destruction that is this lifestyle.

            I have nothing but pity for these people and tried to help who I could but as you know human beings have FREE WILL. They are Free Moral Agents able to behave in sexual or non sexual ways. They can abstain and many do.

            Homosexuality is a heartbreaking thing that twists and mars the early budding sexuality of young girls and boys who are taught it is “all okay” by older sexual predators in their homes, churches and yes, even in Boys and Girl Scouts.

            The stories I could tell about how little girls were “oriented” as preteens and teens in Girl Scouts would cause anyone’s hair to stand on end and molestation of little boys is already documented through others in the Boy Scouts of America.

            There is so much child molestation in the United States and no so much direct “orientation” in the public schools, in Common Core Curriculum and so much experimentation in the universities it is ridiculous for anyone to suggest that this is not “grooming” or “orientation.”

            It totally is. You would have to be blind as a bat to not see what is going on. I suggest you go get your eyes checked sir.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            Elizabeth, I wouldn’t know where to begin in response to your rant, so I’ll assume we have little in common.
            However, whether that means we can’t agree on some things, I won’t guess, but I truly DO appreciate individuals like you! Folks who aren’t afraid to speak their mind, and profess their faith. That’s admirable and honorable!
            Not always appreciated by everyone, but that’s Life!

            I’m pretty sure you have listened to many a torrid story from too many individual’s who’ve wrestled with their gender identification or sexual dysfunction. Since I was not there to witness that, I’ll take your word for it.

            However, I do have to disagree with you when you declare the cause of one becoming Gay to early life tutoring. Sure, a proud Gay or Lesbian parent would be encouraging their child to be whomever they developed to be. Straight OR Gay!

            Does gender nuance make that many people uncomfortable?

            Don’t forget the fact, that every Gay or Lesbian person ever born, was born from a Heterosexual coupling! Did something go wrong? Or is that just Nature? Being Gay OR Lesbian is not an abnormality! It’s just Life!

            Your assertions suggest the LGBT “problem” to be almost systemic, and among many a dignified organization too… not excluding the Church!?

            The ‘troubled’ individuals you spoke of, no doubt had questions. But what teenager or sexually confused person wouldn’t?!

            Life at that age is certainly awkward and vulnerable. What with raging hormones, unrequited angst and the never ending peer pressure. Any answer to what sexual orientation they’ll develop into, is massively important at that age.
            Personally, I think sexual orientation is in flux
            all through one’s life. That shouldn’t be any less, or more important to anyone but the individual, and the person that, that individual loves.

            Thanks for your concern for my eyesight, but I’m seeing clearly from my perspective just fine!

            Thanks for the exchange!

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            Sure Marco. Just call it a “rant” to de legitimize it. That is also one of the “tactics” that I won’t fall for.

            Look. You have a False Gospel operating within yourself and within the USMC. You have exchanged “the truth” for a “lie.”

            You actually believe ’50 Shades of Grey.” That is your Gospel.

            You think there won’t be any consequences to you spouting off this false gospel day and night? Like there are no dire consequences to living a sinfully sexual life style such as homosexuality?

            Science is on my side. We have people dying left and right in the practice of this destructive lifestyle.

            There is no vitality in it. There is no life in it. It is only a descent when practicing this. I have given you enough scientific data. If you choose to carry on and promote this then you are just supporting death to people. You are just supporting cruelty.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            I chose that word: RANT, with the most considerate intentions. It’s not demeaning, it just describes your zeal for the subject.
            I think both you, and I are capable of writing lengthy dissertations when it comes to subjects that we are passionate about?

            No harm, no foul!

            I still don’t understand why you hold such a staunch distaste for LGBT people?

            I understand your want for ‘them’ to go away, but is that realistic, or even neighborly?

            I think all you can hope for now, is that those individuals who are devoutly true to themselves as Gay citizens, don’t increase in number!

            I know many LGBT people who are quite comfortable being their true selves, regardless of the pressure from people like yourself who will condemn them whenever you can.

            As I mentioned previously, our good friends, and former neighbors are marrying this next Saturday.

            Thanks to the Court’s recent decision to lift the ban on same-sex marriage in Florida, our two friends will finally be allowed to legitimately secure their future and all the other benefits of being married.

            I’d bet on their marriage outlasting almost any of the Heterosexual weddings we’ve attended over the last fifteen years!

            These American Liberties are not to be taken lightly, so it is with a whole heart, and huge respect, that we must all fight to defend our brothers’ and sisters’ civil rights. That includes welcoming that sector of society into the realm of human decency. (I know, you think Gays are inherently INdecent!) Get over that!

            There is no science to prove your prejudices to be helpful or necessary.

            Remember, not everybody worships the same God as you! There are as many Gods as there are religions, so please consider that when assessing the world at large.

            As always, Than you for your honesty.
            MarcoPolo

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            I don’t hold a staunch distaste for LGBT people. I pastored them for 25 years remember?I have nothing but compassion for people caught in this most damaging of lifestyles. The mental, emotional, physical and spiritual tolls this takes on human beings engaged in this risky behavior is tragic. it saddens. me

            I never said I wanted anyone to go away? Where did you get that?

            Why would you even say that “someone needs to be true to themselves?” True as in employing a very risky way of living which causes early death and disease?

            once again. I have scientific facts and data to back what I am saying up and I have 25 years of pastoral experience.

            I don’t know what you mean about being “a true self” or “comfortable with self” but the society at large has caused many GLBT people to not understand the risks of such choices.

            they may “feel” a certain way that this is their “authentic self” as “coming out” but are they really being “authentic” in every way shape and form of that word?

            What is an authentic man? It is a man who walks as God made him. Does anybody of your persuasion still study BIOLOGY 101? A man has a sexual function. To be with a woman. what is sperm for? to be ejaculated into another mans’ rectum? Is that authentic?

            No. That is downright diabolical and sinister. And it denies a woman her DUE! Women have a right to men’s sperm as the female counterpart of the species. They have a right to demand that male sperm be available for their eggs and not be ejaculated into some guys rectum okay?

            Do you know how many females in our society cannot find a husband and some sperm to give them children? It’s an epidemic. And why is that?

            Because men are now preferring to ejaculate in other men’s rectums instead of marrying women and providing them with children as is their responsibility from God?

            God made men with genitals and responsibility for those genitals which is to SATISFY WOMEN!

            Women have a right to be satisfied and to find husbands and to expect children as the female counterpart of our specie. And males need to do their duty. And be accountable and responsible and available for women as husbands and fathers.

            GOD made this so. I did not. He did. He made us male and female to get married and have sex and procreate. This is OUR function in this world.

            Look around! The males and females of any and every specie mate and procreate. And humans are supposed to have more intellect?

            How reasonable, smart, intellectual is it for a man to ejaculate his sperm into a man’s rectum and not procreate? Not leave any progeny? Not leave any future for him? Not further his name on this earth? Not be fruitful, blessed and multiply? How is that a good thing?

            It isn’t a good thing. And it denies women their rights. Male homosexuality is actually misogyny. or worse.
            And men suffer for it. I know. They suffer with rectal bleeding, anal incontinence, prolapsed rectum where literally their rectums are falling out of their bodies and have to be reattached or sewn back up in their bodies, bowel cancers and more.

            So how is this a good thing? This is painful and disastrous.

            If you want to “feel” gay then go ahead. I have no problem if you want to “feel” gay. But don’t equate it with any right to hurt your body or the body of another man.

            What I have described up above is abuse. it is sexual abuse. When you use a part of the body like this then you create harm. This is abuse.

            Eventually gay men lose the function of being able to have a bowel movement. And they end up with cholostomy bags of worse.

            There are so many damaging effects for gay men. And all they have to do is stop having rectal intercourse.

            I won’t even go into the alcohol and drug abuse statistics among gay men. And how homosexuality disproportionately affects African American men who are among the highest at risk for AIDS and who comprise a higher number per capita of the men dying from this risky lifestyle.

            I help men STOP the practice of homosexuality and thereby SAVE their own lives and health.

            Helping a man to stop abusing another man and his backside. Letting a man know what TRUE LOVE is though Christ who wants him to live a long life into his 90s instead of dying of Aids or some hideous cancer in his late 50s. THIS is LOVE.

            Telling a man that NO ONE has a right to be inside his rectum. That is a part of his body that no one should enter. It is an exit orifice. It is for defecation. It is unclean. NO ONE should be in there. They have no right.

            We know for a fact, and we have facts, that so many of these men were sodomized as little boys by older men. Even in the Church. and their sexuality is royally screwed up. Their idea about sex. They are traumatized.

            And many commit suicide. And are depressed.

            We have facts. they cannot be ignored. And I will help ANY gay man to stop this abuse.

            If gay men stop sex and leave this lifestyle they have a 100 percent chance of recovery. Otherwise they will continue to sink down into poorer and poorer mental, emotional and physical health.

            I have scientific facts to back me up. You can’t argue with science.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            Elizabeth,
            My use of the term “true to self” was intended to describe a person’s honesty with their own being.

            I can better describe that by asking you:
            “At what age did you determine that you were heterosexual, and not homosexual?”

            If you had no attraction to the opposite sex, would you just consider yourself to be asexual? Or, if you found yourself attracted to the same sex, would you allow someone to try and talk you out of it?

            Why do you always associate homosexuality with sodomy and anal sex? Sure, that orifice is popular with both heterosexuals AND homosexuals, but that’s not the only way to “pleasure” one’s mate.
            And there are actually many LGBT people who have no sexual activity at all!… True!

            You really have gone off the rails describing Rights and responsibilities between men and women. I’m guessing that you’re not a Feminist?
            You would genuinely piss-off all women that I know with your statements regarding Womens’ right to sperm…Wow!!

            Strangely, popular media seems to think aging, post-reproductive males should take erectile dysfunction medication. How ridiculous!
            Yet, the same crowd of promoters for these kinds of products don’t allow women to seek resolve for unwanted pregnancies without shaming them! That’s crazy unfair for women!!

            Your description for “proper use” of genitalia for procreation is indeed sound reasoning, but not everyone wants descendents! This poor pitiful Earth is already overpopulated, and fewer humans, is better than more!

            Continue in good health my friend!

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            “True Self” or “authentic self” is not a matter of honesty or authentication out side of community.

            We are told who we are. We are told and shown what it means to be a man or woman. From our parents and within our families and within society including our individual houses of worship.

            We are also shown through nature. We got out into the world. We see a mommy and her babies. Then we ask, “where is the daddy?” So we know about species through nature. Our parents teach us.

            Within our own faith communities we are taught right from wrong. How to behave. Virtue and Vice. Right and wrong. We are taught to avoid vice and pursue virtue and we are taught how to live rightly and morally.

            Within Christian tradition we are taught how to follow Christ and what he commands. What our obligations are. How to fulfill those. Is it any wonder that Christ describes BOTH marriage and divorce in terms of males and females setting the parameters for relationships of covenant and sex?

            “for this reason a man leaves his mother and father house and cleaves to his wife and the two become one flesh. what God has joined let no one (man) put asunder.”

            So, for the Christian God has already defined marriage and the parameters or boundaries for sexual union. And the Gospel narrative supports the Genesis narrative. From Old Testament to New Testaments there is continuity of law and commandment. Of how God sees it and how he commands it be.

            Now, for those outside the Christian community they can do as they please. I care not. They cannot however use the government against me and my church. I am protected under the First Amendment. Nor can they subvert through Civil Law what is rightly mine and what I have to protect in the way of my faith and my church. And yet they are constantly trying to do so. I have no choice but to fight them if they try to take away my right of religious freedom and erode my government protection.

            In my faith, a woman has a right to a man’s sperm for procreation. And the PURPOSE of a man is to take a wife. His “authentic self” cannot be realized outside of giving his life to a woman in marriage and making children.

            FATHERHOOD is the operating principle in my faith for the authentication of men. There is no other way to be happy. and MEN EXIST to make God and WOMEN happy. NOT themselves.

            Men give to Women what is rightfully theirs by God. He commands men to have intercourse with women, be fruitful and multiply. How else are we to read the command? And he promises a woman as help mate.

            Now for men who want to be single and celibate and religious devoting their whole lives to God that is different. Otherwise they are commanded to marry, make women happy, fulfill God’s command and produce children.

            You should read the Farmers Almanac. We have whole swathes of populations diminishing. We are in decline in the entire world population. You forget that for births there are deaths. And vice versa.

            To use the erroneous statistics of “population explosion” to thwart or disobey or deny the procreative function is pretty sinister. The perception that the world cannot contain so many people is false. It is false science as is global warming AND it serves a certain group of people who truly are genocidal and would love nothing more than to exterminate whole populations or groups of people.

            Fewer humans is better than more? That is a troubling statement. Both Europe and the Middle East are having fewer children. And there are entire countries where no one is marrying or having sex such as Japan where you having aging populations with no one to work or care for them. The Middle East and Muslim birth numbers are in decline.

            There is no reason to suggest that the population will explode. In fact at the rate that people are not having children and being exterminated the “rulers” who have carved out their pieces of the earth will have no trouble getting everyone to bow to their oppressive regimes.

            But as for me. I will continue to promote men to relate to each other as brothers without any sexual contact and to serve the Lord in purity. I will continue to advocate that if men wish to curb their sexual lust to get a wife and have children.

            With the addition of a wife and children and a mortgage they will have very little sexual drive and this is good. To squelch that fire which burns out of control.

            We are making too much of sex in this culture as it is. When we die and go to heaven we are neither married nor given in marriage. We become like the angels. There is no marriage and no sex in heaven. We might as well practice our sexual purity as soon as possible. For the Day of the Lord’s Return is at hand.

            Peace and Purity to everyone.

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            Ten Health Benefits of Male Semen as it Relates to a Female Vagina and Intercourse

            The alleged benefits of seminal plasma are activated when a man deposits semen into a woman’s vagina.

            Here are ten alleged health benefits of seminal plasma:

            1. Natural anti-depressant.
            2. Natural anxiety reducer.
            3. Improves quality of sleep.
            4. Increases energy.
            5. Improves concentration.
            6. Improves memory.
            7. Improves mental alertness.
            8. Assists with pregnancy maintenance.
            9. Increases female-initiated sexual behavior.
            10. Reduces pain.

            Impressed? You should be! NATURE knows what she is doing! Some of the helpful chemicals in seminal plasma include testosterone, estrogen, prolactin, opiod peptides, oxytocin, serotonin, melatonin, and norepineprine. Just think, you can get a dose of all that without having to go to the vitamin store!

          • MarcoPolo says:

            That’s simply FASCINATING! (roll eyes!)

            If male semen is such a crucial and valuable commodity, I guess I’d better start ejaculating somewhere!
            My God woman, is it really an issue of any importance to divulge the physiological benefits of the male participant? Or are those ‘benefits’ also gleaned by the female?

            I’m not dismissing those facts, I’m just noticing
            how far off topic you’ve gone, that I imagine the site moderator is considering interceding.

            There are millions of LGBT people who deserve the right to be as happily married as you. So is it really necessary to go on about how you find their behavior, repugnant?

            You’ve afforded my wife and me plenty of laughs thus far, and so, I must thank you!

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            If a man wants to be happy he needs to ejaculate into a woman’s vagina and make a baby with her and become a FATHER.

            FATHERHOOD is a man’s authentic self realized.

            Otherwise he is just selfish. and wasting his life. Only when he SERVES a wife and children can he truly be happy.

            God made him this way. There is no other alternative. He is deceived if he believes otherwise.

            Completely deceived. If he wants to remain single as a calling, a religious brother, a monk, that is another thing. but again. No sex.

            A man marries a woman. Makes sexual happiness with her. He makes babies. He leaves a legacy. it curbs his sexual lust. it reorients him to GOD.

            A man and SEX with a woman REORIENTS him to God. And gay men need to be reoriented AWAY from men to Women and God.

            Because many of them were molested as boys by older men, confusing them, traumatizing them, twisting their AROUSAL function, so that they don’t know, HOW to be aroused with a woman. They are so DAMAGED in their sexual CORE as men.

            But if they just STOP having sex with men then they can HEAL.

            This is my preaching. And i know it to be true. MANY men have HEALED from sexual molestation and being sodomized as boys.

            Robert Oscar Lopez is one of them. Having been raised by 2 lesbians he ended up in the male sex trade (brothels) in New York servicing men. He left because he could NOT stand to bury another man with AIDS.

            He is now married with children and HAPPY!

          • MarcoPolo says:

            We don’t need to get into why men need sex if what we are really talking about is Marriage Equality. But it seems that sex is all you can focus on! Shameful, I think!

            And you haven’t addressed the Lesbian side of sex. What about that?!

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            When will you learn that I can’t be taken off topic? I’m teflon dude! You can’t shame me. That is another surreptitious Liberal tool like misdirection, obfuscation, and name calling. They don’t work on me okay? I’m an intellectual. I have science on my side. And faith, hope and charity in Jesus Christ. I follow the Bible okay? That is why I can be called “Christian’ because i follow the Lord Jesus in the Bible. The rule book, get it?

            What you are describing in using that term “marriage equality” is completely unbiblical. It is nowhere in the Bible, the ‘rule” of our faith. There is “marriage” in the Bible and it is clearly defined. We are supposed to follow what Jesus told us to do. Which is to get married as a man, with a wife, female, and have children and fulfill FATHERHOOD and our destiny. For women our destiny is MOTHERHOOD the NATURAL complement to the authentication of being a man.

            There isn’t anything else. That is it.

            God put men and women here to be mothers and fathers. And if not then to be single and celibate and to serve him wherever they are in purity and holiness. THAt is the plan laid out clearly in the Bible.

            Are you confused as a “Christian’ about the plan?

            Just get with the Bible.

            “Equality” is not a Christian term. It comes from a SECULAR idea which is quite profane actually and works against Faith, hope and love, which are OUR operating principles.

            why would you bring Secular , profane and humanistic philosophies into the Church? When you could have Faith, Hope and Charity?

            Terms like Equality have no business on the church. The secular humanists have brought them in and we need not adhere to them.

            In the Church, we have our OWN hierarchy. Our OWN polity or politics. why would you bring “the world’s” bankrupt polity and philosophies INTO the Church? They have no meaning. They carry NO WEIGHT. They have NO value. AND Guess what?

            WE don’t have to obey them NOR adhere to them. So why bring them up?

            Please. Keep your secular humanistic philosophies Out of Theological talk. I you want to talk about the Church you are required to USE the Bible or Theological terms. Otherwise just STOP calling yourself a Christian and be HONEST.

            Tell everybody you NO LONGER Believe in the Church, or the Bible or Christ and that you are basically a Secular Humanist. And then STOP PRETENDING to be a Christian okay?

            Otherwise you are just a pretender and a phony.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            Dear Elizabeth,
            I already clarified my “religion” as Pantheist/Buddhist.
            Sure, secular humanist is pretty close a description if you like. But no longer a Christian.

            I’d bet you’d get an argument from some of your fellow parishioners stating that “Equality has no business [on] the Church!” …Really?!

            Just to clarify again,
            • Not everybody is a Christian.
            • Not all LGBT individuals have anal sex
            • Not everybody wants to procreate
            • Name calling is not necessary, nor is it Christ-like.

            Peace,
            MarcoPolo

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            Do me a favor then? Don’t comment back to me on what is Christ like okay? You have no right. You aren’t a Christian. You have really no say in the community because you are outside it. Do I comment on Buddhism to you or tell you what is Buddhist.

            You have no right.

            This website is a commentary on what the USMC is doing. What WE in the Christian community hold as Sacred.

            Remember I pastored these people IN the Church? So you don’t know anything about that do you since you are not a member?

            And your secular humanistic philosophies or values don’t apply do they?

            Have a nice day.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            Message received, Elizabeth!

            However, I was born and raised (and baptized) in the First Methodist Church before it became the First United Methodist Church.
            I went through MYF, sang in the Church Choir from the age of three to seventeen. I’ve recited the Apostles Creed many, many times, so I do know a thing or two about this particular denomination.

            My wandering was due to so many contemporary Christians becoming overly nationalistic, and in doing so, it seems they conceded to the Republican Party and it’s power orgy.
            Not all Christians, and not all denominations did, but after almost sixty years of living, I’ve come to realize that no single religion has the corner on eternity. So I follow the path that is least genocidal in it’s War making and more inclusive of the diversity of the human condition.

            Roughly ten years ago, I was regularly corresponding with The IRD’s Mark Tooley about the way the UMC was reaching the populace through a healthy campaign with the catch-phrase: “Open Doors, Open Hearts, Open Minds.”
            Then, and now it seems, that people like yourself feel that I’m wrong to encourage Gay and Lesbian people to discover the UMC?!

            Hearing such rejection about certain ‘types’ of people was the beginning of my disdain for the prejudice that was developing within my old family church.
            I’m very saddened for that!

            Are not ALL people, welcome?

            ps. The Choir Master of our family UMC was a masterful musician, Organist and Choir Leader.
            Not to mention a very wonderful, generous, and devoted human being!
            It didn’t matter to any of us that he wasn’t ‘straight’, BECAUSE IT DIDN’T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE!!!!

            We would all defend his right to live his life as he was living it, so please don’t be insulting the character of some very trusted Christians that may not measure up to YOUR standards!
            Some of them are Heroes to me and hundreds if not thousands of other people.

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            The Health Risks of Gay Sex by John R. Diggs, M.D.

            Sexual relationships between members of the same sex expose gays, lesbians and bisexuals to extreme risks of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STDs), physical injuries, mental disorders and even a shortened life span. There are five major distinctions between gay and heterosexual relationships, with specific medical consequences. They are:

            Levels of Promiscuity

            Prior to the AIDS epidemic, a 1978 study found that 75 percent of white, gay males claimed to have had more than 100 lifetime male sex partners: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250-499; 15 percent claimed 500- 999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners. Levels of promiscuity subsequently declined, but some observers are concerned that promiscuity is again approaching the levels of the 1970s. The medical consequence of this promiscuity is that gays have a greatly increased likelihood of contracting HIV/AIDS, syphilis and other STDs.

            Similar extremes of promiscuity have not been documented among lesbians. However, an Australian study found that 93 percent of lesbians reported having had sex with men, and lesbians were 4.5 times more likely than heterosexual women to have had more than 50 lifetime male sex partners. Any degree of sexual promiscuity carries the risk of contracting STDs.

            Physical Health: Common sexual practices among gay men lead to numerous STDs and physical injuries, some of which are virtually unknown in the heterosexual population. Lesbians are also at higher risk for STDs. In addition to diseases that may be transmitted during lesbian sex, a study at an Australian STD clinic found that lesbians were three to four times more likely than heterosexual women to have sex with men who were high-risk for HIV.

            Mental Health: It is well established that there are high rates of psychiatric illnesses, including depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts, among gays and lesbians. This is true even in the Netherlands, where gay, lesbian and bisexual (GLB) relationships are far more socially acceptable than in the U.S. Depression and drug abuse are strongly associated with risky sexual practices that lead to serious medical problems.

            Life Span: The only epidemiological study to date on the life span of gay men concluded that gay and bisexual men lose up to 20 years of life expectancy.

            Monogamy: Monogamy, meaning long-term sexual fidelity, is rare in GLB relationships, particularly among gay men. One study reported that 66 percent of gay couples reported sex outside the relationship within the first year, and nearly 90 percent if the relationship lasted five years.

            Encouraging people to engage in risky sexual behavior undermines good health and can result in a shortened life span. Yet that is exactly what employers and governmental entities are doing when they grant GLB couples benefits or status that make GLB relationships appear more socially acceptable.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            Why anyone would find it necessary to criticize another person for their sexual activity is beyond me, but hey, some people just think other people’s personal lives are open for discussion.

            How is it even relevant to the number of sexual partners one has had, when discussing Rights and Privileges of a FREE society?

            Most people I’ve known over the past sixty years have had hundreds of personal (sexual and non-sexual) encounters. Is this now, the barometer for measuring one’s capacity for fidelity? I think not!

            It is with great pride and joy, that this next Saturday, a devoted couple that were our neighbors, will marry. They’ve been faithfully together for twenty-eight years, so we all know that will never last…LOL!

            Their gender makes no difference, so why make any distinction? Love is Love! Try and tell two faithful individuals that they don’t deserve the luxury (or agony) of Marriage, based upon your standards for the institution…it makes no sense!

            It will be socially acceptable when America finally matures.

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            You speak of maturity sir? How mature is it, adult like, to support such a lifestyle which dooms so many? And, I would rather be a compassionate human being and state the truth of such a lifestyle. That it is deadly. And has proven so over and over.

            I need not make things up. And as for criticism of a person’s sexual activity this is nothing of the sort. Though YOU would be neglectful of analyzing such data as would Harm mostly men of your gender.

            I analyze things sir. These are facts. They produce health risks and death. To these men and women and to the community and to the cost of the community. And you would do what? ignore these facts? Mind your own business in the face of such suffering?

            you accuse of immaturity. I accuse you of neglect and caring nothing for a whole group of your gender who will die agonizing deaths, mostly from wasting cancers.

            Fidelity has a definition in the Church for which this discussion is centered. Sexual fidelity already has a definition. Celibacy of singles in imitation of Our Lord Jesus Christ. And Faithfulness in a single purpose within marriage between one man and one woman for a lifetime.

            As signaled by Christ and his church. Love is already defined by Christ for and to those in the Church. It is self sacrifice. As exemplified by Christ’s death on the cross. Therefore, a “man lays down his life in sacrifice for another” and “no greater love does a man have than that of a friend” to another man. Therefore, they call each other “brother” because Christ makes them so.

            Do brothers have intercourse with other brothers? Who would do such a thing? No. this is incest. Christian men are to embrace each other as holy family. Any physical barriers are not to be crossed. This is grievous sin for “all who sin sexually sin against their own bodies.”

            IF you care nothing for Christ’s life and example why are you in the Church? You are free to have your fill of men in the world. at your peril.

            As for me and my house we will faithfully serve the Lord.

            Do not speak to me of America or maturity. You know nothing of the word nor of fidelity to Christ or wisdom.

            You are like a stubborn mule only braying for your stubborn ungodly way. But have at it. No one is stopping you.

            I will follow Christ. I care nothing for your ungodly assertions or advice. They carry no weight or value. And they simply are not true. They are falsehood and just cause factual suffering for millions of men and women who refuse to control their deadly lust.

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            Wall Street Journal

            Half of all gay and bisexual men will be HIV-positive by age 50

            Such are the conclusions of a new research study from the University of Pittsburgh

            By Drew Altman Oct 2, 2014

            Gay and bisexual men represent an estimated 2% of the U.S. population but more than half of all people living with HIV and 66% of new HIV infections. They are the only population group in the United States for which HIV infections are rising. Projections have shown that if current trends continue, half of all gay and bisexual men will be HIV-positive by age 50.

            So it’s a major concern that, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation survey published Thursday, only a third of gay and bisexual men know that infections are increasing among this group. Only a quarter know that if someone who is HIV-positive is taking HIV antiretroviral treatment, his risk of passing on the virus is significantly reduced. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends testing every three to six months for sexually active gay and bisexual men; many state health departments do as well. But almost a third of gay and bisexual men have never been tested for HIV, and another third were tested more than a year ago. More than half don’t know about pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP)–a pill that HIV-negative men can take to prevent infection that is about 90% effective when taken every day.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            Well there you go…Good news!
            Those men who are Gay and single (Not Married) will show a higher level of STD exposure simply because the “market” dictates such.

            Please don’t discount the rate of STDs among single (not married) Heterosexuals, and their related plight. Similar, but different! Hmmm?

            When you were younger and sexually active, were you also not concerned about such statistics?

            If it is your hope that Homosexuals destroy themselves via some associated malady, then that is just sad. But I apologize for presuming that that would be your wishes regarding this vitally creative sector of our society.

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            ahh. the argument of someone who cannot stick to the facts. Oh do let us obfuscate and misdirect the conversation toward what Heterosexuals do so as to dismiss, minimize or discount the topic at hand, which is the deadly and knowable statistics regarding the homosexual lifestyle. This tactic of yours is well known. And I am too aware to fall for it.

            When I was younger and sexually active? Are you for real? What possible insanity would possess you to think I would discuss anything to do with me WHEN again, we are discussing the health risk of the homosexual lifestyle which are deadly? Again. Nice try on misdirection.

            Was I not clear about my pastoral career among homosexuals or must I go on repeating myself in print? Can you not read?

            It is a great malady and a tragedy of these men and women lives. The deaths from Aids. The wasted alcoholism. Drug abuse. And untold misery of cancers of the rectum and bowel. The shortened life spans. Did you not read the statistics or are you just going to ignore them?

            How can a sector of the society which has such misery from disease, both physical and mental be vital? It is not. It is fraught with misery. Syphillis is an epidemic in both SF and Vancouver, B.C. as is Aids.

            Don’t be so glib. You are such a heartless and cruel man. And permissive. Which leads to all kinds of cruel and suffering ends.

            According to Altman in the WSJ there is an ongoing epidemic of AIDS with gay men by age 50. You think a 50% statistic concerning all gay men by age 50 is nothing? What suffering.

            You. are cruel and heartless. Very. Do everyone a favor. Stop calling yourself a Christian. You have none of his love or compassion for the suffering.

          • MarcoPolo says:

            Elizabeth,
            I was not attempting to obfuscate or reroute the conversation. I do know that to make a statement regarding social statistics, it is best to present opposing, and tangential data… simply for objective comparison.

            There is no need to defend heterosexuals, any differently than homosexuals. Both deserve defending as they are both, legitimate lifestyles.

            I never called myself a Christian, but I do have great compassion and empathy for human suffering, but the LGBT issue is not a problem in most people’s world.

            For the record, I’m a “Pantheist/Buddhist”… and thanks for recognizing my sincerity! You are perceptive! But I’m guessing that you’ll never have agape love for anyone who is not “Straight”!

            I could be wrong!
            Peace,
            MarcoPolo

          • Elizabeth Levesque says:

            Mean Gays and Their Supporters by Robert Oscar Lopez. American Thinker.

            Mean Gays

            By Robert Oscar Lopez

            I have spent forty years in the LGBT community. I’ve grown up as gayness has grown up. Much has changed — but the nastiness hasn’t.

            The crudeness of “anti-bullying” Dan Savage is traumatizing, yet he gets encouragement from gays and lesbians who pattern their personal attitudes after his politics. This is what passes, in Dan Savage’s world, as civilized behavior: outing people, combing through the personal lives of people like Ted Haggard with righteous nosiness, fantasizing about sodomizing Rick Santorum, making fun of Marcus Bachmann’s lisp, calling Christian students pansy-assed and the Bible “bullshit,” and dismissing gay Republicans as “house faggots.” Now, well into middle age, he has a reality show on MTV that allows him to troll around college campuses talking to nineteen-year-olds about kinky sex.

            Dan Savage isn’t alone. If anything, he brandishes tactics that countless gays and lesbians and their supporters have learned: stay offensive, hurt others before they hurt you, gather allies around you through sarcastic mockery, and humiliate until you get your way.

    • Elizabeth, could you please shoot me an email to follow up on this privately? jlomperis at theird dot org

  5. Dan says:

    I wish this “just a resolution” document would be read aloud in every UMC pulpit. Perhaps then the pew potatoes who intone “Why I’ve been a Methodist for XX years/generations and I will never leave. Besides, this doesn’t affect my local congregation.” Just take a look at The Episcopal Church over the last 30 years. The UMC will never change, absent a miracle from God and I sincerely think he’s done with the UMC. The bishops, clergy, and annual/general conference laity agitators have things firmly in control and they will never give up their money and power.

    • Paul Hoskins says:

      On the good side, the “pew potatoes” you speak of are dying off. Not many people under 60 have this mentality of “I’m sticking with the church I was raised in!”

      Btw, good phrase – pew potatoes.

  6. John S. says:

    I think the “sad but not surprising” covers it all. Unfortunately it also sums up the UMC.

  7. MarcoPolo says:

    Actually, the operative words here: “long retired”, should settle any dispute as to whether the issue is relevant to Life today.

    Although I agree with the solemnity of one taking any vow before God and public witness seriously, I also believe the Church (organized religion) has gotten the topic of marriage wrongly ‘painted into a corner’.

    Granted, a same sex couple cannot copulate their way through pregnancy, they can certainly avail themselves to raising an adopted child. That’s something that might abate the growth of unclaimed orphans?
    Imagine that, if abortions were to decline because more birth mothers were to gestate for the burgeoning market of same sex couples who desire to start a family?

  8. Elizabeth Levesque says:

    The Ongoing Human Rights Crisis by the GLBT Community by Robert Oscar Lopez. American thinker.

    It started, as so many human rights disasters do, in the name of love. It was commonplace in the antebellum Americas to hear of plantation owners expressing love for their slaves. Even Frederick Douglass admits that many times slaves, while alone, vied to see who could praise his master the highest. Did not Robespierre begin with love for his countrymen? For that matter, didn’t Castro?

    History repeats. The movement to liberate same-sex love began because people loved each other. Somehow, through convoluted digressions, it has become a tyrannical octopus seeking to control life and death itself.

    The Rubicon was crossed when the gay movement sided with human trafficking; graft-ridden dirty deals with warlords for orphanages; bio-engineering, baby-farming, and emotional deprivation of innocent children by forcing them to replace a biological parent with a fictional same-sex partner. Naturally, any child forced into such a psychically traumatic origin fantasy who feels resentful about it will be cursed by its caretakers as not only ungrateful, but also a homophobe.

    A year ago, I was afraid to fight what is happening in the LGBT community. Unaware of what the response would be, I published some articles about being the product of gay parenting and received hundreds of e-mails from around the world pleading with me to fight against a growing human-rights crisis caused by the LGBT movement. They wrote from so many places, so many countries; they had such eloquence and force; they were children of sperm donors, troubled adoptees, people agonized by the baby-farming in India and elsewhere, gays horrified at what is being done in the name of “gay families,” religious people, atheists, people who know for whatever reason that buying babies and erasing fatherhood or motherhood is not the fruit of love.

    I cannot stay silent anymore. My race forbids it; perhaps, being the descendant of Puerto Rican slaves and knowing that the LGBT movement is reducing people — children, sperm donors, surrogate mothers — to chattel. I have assembled a documentlisting the main points of urgency. I fear that the only movement that can take action would have to be global; in the United States, as I explain, the academy, the fourth estate, the democratic process, and the judiciary are all ill-equipped to stop what the LGBT movement is doing.

  9. Elizabeth Levesque says:

    The Truth Behind ENDA: What the LGBT Agenda is all about: Revenge on Christians

    “Testing their true spirit, Theodore Shoebat set out on a quest with his website crew to see how bakers advocating homosexual behavior respond when asked to bake a cake for [Christians] who don’t reflect their progressive views on homosexuality.

    “But before going into their findings, Shoebat showcased the sheer lack of tolerance that lawsuits and subsequent rulings have demonstrated against those who refuse to support the homosexual agenda due to their sincerely held religious convictions.

    “Christian bakeries that refuse to make pro-homosexual marriage cakes are getting sued left, right, and center,” Shoebat asserts. Christians “get fined, they get death threats, and they lose their businesses.”

    [Dr. Chaps’ comment: There is a double-standard. When Christians won’t endorse sin, we are accused of “discrimination.” But when pro-gay bakers won’t make a Bible cake, they accuse the Christians of hate. Either way, Christians lose. That will be law in all 50 states if ENDA becomes law.]

    Let’s petition Congress to defeat ENDA forever.

    HOT Petition, Stop ENDA “bathroom bill” to Punish Christian Employers. Select, sign, we will fax all 535 members of House and Senate (saving you time!) or pick free option here.

    Friends, their version of tolerance now requires bankrupting Christian employers, or any public restaurant or retail store that refuses men full access to women’s bathrooms. We must take action to stop ENDA from becoming law.

  10. Elizabeth Levesque says:

    Christian Man Asks Thirteen Gay Bakeries To Bake Him Pro-Traditional Marriage Cake, And Is Denied Service By All Of Them.

    By Theodore Shoebat

    Say that “Bestiality Is Wrong” or “Polygamy Is Wrong” and it’s not considered hate speech, but if you have the opinion that “Gay Marriage Is Wrong” the whole world jumps up and down screaming “racism” “bigotry” and “hatred”.

    This is becoming the politically-correct norm, but no matter what one argues, this is suppressing free speech.

    No one targeted pro-gay bakeries, but gay activists target Christian bakeries. “Support Gay Marriage” is one Christian bakery was sued for refusing to put that slogan on a cake for an event to support the gay agenda. Yet Christian bakeries that refuse to make pro-homosexual marriage cakes are getting sued left, right, and center. They get fined, they get death threats, and they lose their businesses. This experiment proves beyond doubt that the gay agenda is not just about their freedom to practice a sexual orientation, but the suppression of free speech.

    To make our case we provided 3 video clips, the third one is a video showing homosexual activists in Ireland used the state to force a Christian bakery to make a cake with the slogan “Support Gay Marriage” for a pro-gay marriage event, but he refused which added a tremendous loss to his business. Several Christian bakeries were sued in the United States with several who lost their businesses and we said enough is enough.

    So Shoebat.com decided to call some 13 prominent pro-gay bakers in a row. Each one denied us the right to have “Gay Marriage Is Wrong” on a cake and even used deviant insults and obscenities against us. One baker even said all sorts of profanities against Christians and ended the conversation by saying that she will make me a cookie with a large phallus on it.

    It was all recorded. It will stun the American people as to how militant and intolerant the homosexual bakers were. Even after we completed our experiment we got a ton of hate messages saying that we were “hateful” for simply giving them a taste of their own medicine. They argued that the slogan “Gay Marriage Is Wrong” is not the same thing as “Support Gay Marriage” as if an opposite view of a view is hateful. This would mean that the majority of Americans who oppose gay marriage are “bigoted” and “hate filled”. “Support Polygamy” or “Polygamy is Wrong” are views, yet the first which the Muslim supports and the second most Americans would never support, but both are opinions and are considered free speech.

  11. Elizabeth Levesque says:

    Indiana Law Has Homosexuals Foaming At The Mouth
    by World Net Daily-March 30, 2015

    Critics of Indiana Gov. Mike Pence’s recent signature on his state’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act are ignoring the fact the U.S. Constitution and the state constitution “both provide strong recognition of the freedom of religion,” Pence said.

    And Monday, he said, “Many people of faith feel their religious liberty is under attack by government action.”

    The signing has evoked strong reaction from “more rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth people than you can imagine,” in the words of one observer. Many activists claim the law intended to protect religious rights will allow discrimination against homosexuals.

    But does it?

    “[J]ournalistic abuse has exploded into controversy over an innocuous religious freedom law in Indiana,” wrote Gabriel Malor on The Federalist. “This law, known as a Religious Freedom Restoration Act … tracks the language of the 1993 federal RFRA signed into law by President Clinton after a 97-3 vote in the Senate. But you would not necessarily know how innocuous it is from news media coverage. According to what you might hear in the news, this is an anti-gay law that is ‘almost universally loathed,’ and which a White House official suggested would ‘legitimize discrimination.’ Indiana’s RFRA has none of these characteristics.”

    That 1993 federal law that was signed into law by Democratic president Bill Clinton “unanimously passed the House of Representatives, where it was sponsored by then-congressman Chuck Schumer …,” reports the Weekly Standard.

    “The law reestablished a balancing test for courts to apply in religious liberty cases (a standard had been used by the Supreme Court for decades).

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/03/indiana-law-has-homosexuals-foaming-at-the-mouth/#65BzwpIl8CfoQtYo.99

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