The United Methodist Church has made many mistakes that have now pushed our denomination to the breaking point. Among the most destructive mistakes was how too many United Methodists listened to suggestions and claims that those seeking to liberalize church standards on marriage were not seeking to make too radical changes in the denomination. Relatedly, too many United Methodists have believed the misleading propaganda and misinformation about how if liberalization advocates had their way, they would still be very lovingly tolerant of any conservative United Methodists who remained in the denomination, and that such tolerance was even workable. Christians and other churches hearing similar suggestions that one church or denomination could include different practices and teachings among its leaders should look carefully at how that has worked out for my denomination and learn from the UMC’s mistakes.
Read the rest of the article on Learning from the UMC’s mistakes here on First Things.
Comment by David on April 25, 2023 at 8:03 am
The Methodist Church has changed over the years. Originally, it opposed any form of amusement as codified in 1872.
“But in cases of neglect of duties of any kind, imprudent conduct, indulging sinful tempers or words, the buying, selling, or using intoxicating liquors as a beverage, dancing, playing at games of chance, attending theaters, horse-races, circuses, dancing-parties, or patronizing dancing-schools, or taking such other amusements as are obviously of misleading or questionable moral tendency, or disobedience to the Order and Discipline of the Church… ”
Members who engaged in such activities were subject to expulsion from the denomination. The laundry list of forbidden activities was eliminated in 1924 for a general prohibition of “diversions which cannot be used in the name of the Lord Jesus.” The individual member and their pastor were to be the judges of these matters. It was admitted at the time of the change that many members were indulging in the proscribed activities.
The idea of a church expelling a member is thought rather extreme today and one rarely hears of it. The behavioral standards of the past can seem amusing in retrospect. All denominations seem to be losing members including the Mormons, Southern Baptists, and other conservative groups. There is a tendency to claim that membership loss is a sign of making mistakes, but the trend is general.
Comment by Elaine Stanovsky on April 25, 2023 at 12:09 pm
The picture is of Church of the Pilgrims, Presbyterian, in Washington D.C. From their mission statement, “We follow Jesus, seeing God’s image in every face, inviting all people into the circle of God’s grace.” https://www.churchofthepilgrims.org/about
Comment by David Allen Charlton on April 25, 2023 at 12:34 pm
“Relatedly, too many United Methodists have believed the misleading propaganda and misinformation about how if liberalization advocates had their way, they would still be very lovingly tolerant of any conservative United Methodists who remained in the denomination, and that such tolerance was even workable. Christians and other churches hearing similar suggestions that one church or denomination could include different practices and teachings among its leaders should look carefully at how that has worked out for my denomination and learn from the UMC’s mistakes. ”
Hopefully they will also look carefully out how similar promises worked out other Oldline denominations. The post-Christian left is remarkably consistent in the tactics it uses. I recently left the ELCA, after watching promises of mutual respect being broken again and again over the last 13 years. Don’t believe the promises. If you remain in the UMC, be realistic about how you will be treated.
Comment by Roger on April 25, 2023 at 4:03 pm
How can 2 walk together if they can not be agreed? The UMC is now becoming an Apostate Church with leadership disavowing principles of Preaching and Teaching in our Churches and Seminaries. It is like a divorce, we can’t live like this, and either one has to leave or change their commitment to the other.
Comment by Michael Anderson on April 25, 2023 at 7:51 pm
Before us when all there was was God. God could only imagine what true love was. So God took from God’s self a handful of God and placed it over here or there. That smaller part of God is us. For God to know what true love is. God created love’s opposite which is fear. All our decisions in life are made from either love or fear. Fear is made up in our imagination, or someone else instills fear upon us. So love is all there is.
No such thing as sin. Only experiences for bettering ourselves and knowing God.
Stop living life on fear is my suggestion.
Comment by Elaine Stanovsky on April 26, 2023 at 3:20 pm
How do Christians who are bound to one another in the covenant of baptism embrace separation, even if it is labelled “amicable?” Jesus’ prayer is that we all be one as he and his Father are one. As deeply as I may disagree with some of my baptized siblings, I don’t believe that relieving the discomfort caused by our differences by separation is faithful. It feels like cowardice to me, or worse. Approaching the table of the Lord together, despite our different gifts, interpretations and understandings is the way of love. Searching together for unity in the Spirit, even in the face of deep division, is the way of faith. As a bishop in The United Methodist Church, I participated in disaffiliations. I tried not to stand in the way of “amicable separation.” But I never felt it was faithful to do so. The gospels and the epistles teach us time and again that by the Holy Spirit, God works within us and among us, to show us more than we see now, and to humbly learn from one another more than we know on our own. The community of baptized believers is the living body of our Lord. I believe it is sinful to choose to do more violence to the body of Christ. May God have mercy.
Comment by Tom on April 26, 2023 at 5:29 pm
So, Elaine, are you returning to the church of Rome from which the Methodists separated?
Comment by George on April 26, 2023 at 6:49 pm
I think that was Martin Luther, not John Wesley. Just saying………
Comment by David S. on April 26, 2023 at 10:27 pm
David,
“All denominations seem to be losing members including the Mormons, Southern Baptists, and other conservative groups.”
Since when were the Mormons a Christian denomination?
They are not. If you think they are, then you know nothing about Mormon doctrine, which is decidely not Christian, regardless of its claims to be of Christ, much as the Progressive Christian Heresy that has performed a hosyile takeover of each of the mainlines and now some of the evangelical churches is NOT Christian.
Comment by David on April 27, 2023 at 7:43 am
I am aware of the very different theology of the Mormons compared to other groups, but they claim to be Christian.
Comment by George on April 27, 2023 at 8:33 am
Before everyone gets carried away saying who is Christian and who is not, please read
Luke 6:41-46. Most of the Mormons that I have met acted more Christian than a lot of Methodist, Catholic, Baptist, on and on. No, I’m not a Mormon but before I condemn any of their beliefs I need to do a”clean up on isle five” in my own life. If we are to be judged, let our Lord do it. Everyone who makes it to heaven may be surprised at who they run into.
p.s. I truly hope to see all of you there, and that includes you, David.
Comment by David S. on April 27, 2023 at 2:51 pm
George,
Mormon theology claims that its adherents become God’s of their own planets. Mormonism claims that Jesus and Satan are brothers. Mormonism claims that God was a physical person. Mormonism therefore is not Christian. Clearly, you are not informed on Mormonism, when you freak out over someone, in following the example of Christ and the Apostles in rejecting clearly false doctrine claiming to be Christian. But that really isn’t the subject of this. I merely pointed out the falsity of David including Mormonism in the same boat as historically recognized Christian denominations, when it, like the Jehovah’s Witness, Christian Science, and other cults, claim to be Christian, but are not upon critical examination.
Comment by David S. on April 27, 2023 at 2:59 pm
Mr. Loomperis,
Thank you for posting. Sadly, some Methodists did not learn the lessons from the other mainlines that preceded in going down this path. The PC(USA) had what they called gracious dismissal and also said that congregations that choose to remain will be respected. While the presbyterian form of government is a hybrid of the episcopal and congregationalist forms of government, i.e. the congregation has more say in the calling of new pastors, the national entities of that denomination have largely acted just as the UMC officials you have described have done.
I am glad to see that the judicial council has said that the abeyances are not an acceptable practice. But honestly, a more liberalized polity, such as the PC(USA)’s polity of “diversity of thought”, is even worse, because as my wife has observed, as long as one doesn’t say, “Satan is Lord!”, then anything goes as far as one’s theological beliefs are concerned in the PC(USA).
Comment by Robert McMillan on April 27, 2023 at 4:25 pm
Sin will beg to be tolerated, then ask to be accepted, and then demand to be celebrated. That’s how it works. Think about it.
Comment by George on April 27, 2023 at 5:18 pm
Well David S., how do you feel about the Jews ? The other religions of the world? How about the chasm that separates the snake handling Holiness of the Appalachians and the Roman Catholic Church? I was only try to say that we may spend too much time looking over our shoulder at others and not watching where we are going. The UMC mess is a perfect example.
Comment by Carol Cooper on April 27, 2023 at 8:39 pm
I am a Methodist andI love my church , Pastor but above all Almighty God. I read the Bible completely. No where does God say marriage is between two men or two women. It is between a man and a woman. ONLY. No clergy should be gay lesbian etc. None in my Bible any in your Bible. My Church is now Methodist not United Methodist by vote of all of us. I am thankful we were able to do this. Furthermore We do not believe in abortion Amen. God Bless All of You. Remember “ God is Great All The Time”. Carol Cooper PVMC
Comment by John on April 28, 2023 at 11:41 am
All your arguments in favor of leaving The UMC rest on one premise…that deep down all progressives and centrists are just as intolerant as you.
Comment by Dr. Bill on April 28, 2023 at 12:34 pm
Elaine, unity at all costs is not a Christian virtue. Consider 2 Tim. 3:
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant
sive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
Avoid such people. Baptized or not. And this admonition is repeated in several other scriptures.
Furthermore, baptism does not make one a believer. Baptism is an outward sign but is no guarantee of an inward Grace. If that were so, just baptize everyone and then they are Christians. It is a means of Grace, but not a guarantee that Grace will be responded to. Conversion happens by faith through Grace (prevenient, convicting and only then justifying). One becomes part of the community of faith by conversion, being born again. By being changed supernaturally and given a brand new nature.
We are not bound to the baptized, but to the converted who have been reborn and who have God’s Spirit living within them. A wet head does not a conversion make. This idea that a ritual has the power to convert is too close to magic and the whole concept is far too close to Universalism. This is the kind of idea that has done so much damage and caused very many to lose faith in UMC leadership. This kind of shaming through some nebulis, undefined, unclear and unscriptural theology is exactly what many of us have come to sadly expect from leadership.
Comment by Amber on April 29, 2023 at 1:03 am
John, the progressive “Christians” have proven time and again that they are in fact far more intolerant than faithful Christ-followers. Dare to say that you believe that the law which Jesus affirmed and upheld, and you are mocked and insulted. Suggest that those who uphold historic, orthodox Christianity should leave the apostate church and its affirmations and celebrations of sin, and you are accused of “doing violence to the body of Christ.” The intolerance of those who claim tolerance as their highest virtue is not new and should not surprise anyone who is paying attention.
Comment by George on April 29, 2023 at 8:42 am
Very well said Amber.
Comment by Tim Wohlford on May 1, 2023 at 8:28 pm
The UMC made the mistake of trying to push the gay agenda at a time when African leadership was pushing back a colonial power structures. Bad idea.
Many African intellectuals view African civil wars (ie, the current one in Sudan) as proxies between the USSR/Russia and the USA. They believe, rightly or wrongly, that they’d do better if the major powers just left Africa to figure things out.
And in the middle of this comes the white American liberals with their “salvation” of Woke Theology….