For the past 15 years I have attended a wonderful, historic United Methodist congregation in Alexandria, Virginia. I love our beautiful, 170-year-old sanctuary, which served as a federal hospital during the Civil War. Our worship is traditional in style with liturgy and old hymns. There are lots of great people, including our most recent pastor, an energetic young man, who likely saved the long declining congregation from extinction.
But when the pastor earlier this year preached a sermon in which he disagreed with traditional church teaching on sexuality, I realized I could no longer stay. Fortunately, there is a church with a traditionalist pastor just as close to my home. Once coronavirus subsides and it reopens, I plan on becoming active there.
(Read the rest of this article here.)
Comment by Pat on April 29, 2020 at 3:35 pm
Thank you for the article. As a traditional Methodist, I hope, once the split takes place there will be a traditional Methodist church near me if my church votes to become a progressive Methodist church. There will be many, I believe, who will have to find a new church in locations where there are simply no traditional Methodist churches remaining near their community or home.
Comment by Jim on April 29, 2020 at 7:40 pm
Jesus spoke in very clear terms to the Apostles John I’m the Book of Revelation. The letter to the church of Laodicea applies to the mainline Protestant churches in the 21st century. The majority of these churches are made up of congregations of unbelievers and some believers. They are the apostate church. The word of God is not taught in deference to tickle the ears stories. Jesus Christ knocks on the door of these churches awaiting an invitation to enter. Repentance is our Lord’s exhortation to the apostate church. It’s not too late but the clock is ticking. This is not a matter of traditional versus progressive. This is about having long ago leaving the 1st love. Mainline pastors must lead the way in repentance so that the congregation may follow. Not to do so will result in judgement.
Comment by Douglas E Ehrhardt on April 30, 2020 at 4:38 am
Well said Brother Jim.
Comment by Pat on April 30, 2020 at 2:14 pm
I agree. Thank you!
Comment by James Culberson on May 2, 2020 at 8:17 am
I am blessed by Bro. Jim’s comments.
Comment by Sam Waddell on April 29, 2020 at 7:44 pm
Go with your Biblical convictions and don’t let any one change you!
Comment by Tim on April 29, 2020 at 9:16 pm
As I have stated before we live in a rural area (25 miles to the next town) and there is only one Methodist Church in town. There is no Free Methodist Church, no Wesleyan Church in town. We have an Episcopal Church in town we can go to, but they already have the same problem as the Methodist. I guess I could join the Catholic Church. I like liturgical churches that following the lectionary, that leaves out the Baptist Church. So what do you recommend for my family Mark?
Comment by Jim on April 30, 2020 at 9:26 am
Tim, you seem to be assessing your options based on “form ” rather than substance. The “style ” of the service is a secondary, peripheral component. Having come out of the Roman Catholic Church many years ago, I can confidently tell you to steer clear. I recommend you give the Baptist church a go. There’s likely a better chance the substance of the word of God is being proclaimed. If the scriptures are not being proclaimed in their fullness, it’s an apostate church. It really is that simple.
Comment by td on May 1, 2020 at 12:15 pm
I understand your meaning and intent here. However, people do have real preferences on worship style- and it does have an effect. When someone dismisses this as something they just need to “get over”, i suspect it is because the person saying it likes worship the way they currently have it.
Does this stuff matter? Yes and no. Obviously, the truth matters most. But i question a group that throws out the long standing historical liturgy of the church. And if we are specifically talking about the UMC, there will be many orthodox theology congregations who will remain with the changed UMC because they think that the “traditionalists” will force an evangelical, praise band, anti-hymn, anti-liturgy worship style on them.
How you worship does matter. It displays belief. Obviously, i personally do not like an evangelical or charismaric worship style. It does not reflect how jesus has acted with me in my life. And as such, i feel unwelcome in it. That does not mean that it doesn’t have validity for others. There is no easy answer here. I think there is a middle ground, but it seems that once the praise band gets going, that ends up being the center of the whole thing.
Comment by TexasLeigh on April 30, 2020 at 3:52 pm
I recommend you listen to the Catholic Answers Live radio program. It’s a call-in program where people can ask questions about Catholic beliefs. It could be helpful to you. Hope everything works out for you.
Comment by Loren J Golden on April 30, 2020 at 6:35 pm
A few questions:
You say you “like liturgical churches that follow the lectionary”. How important is use of the Lectionary compared to doctrine, especially doctrines that have separated Protestant churches from the Roman Catholic Church since the Reformation?
Is the use of the Lectionary more important to you than a pastor who preaches that men and women are unequivocally justified before the throne of God by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, apart from the works of the Law (Rom. 3.21-31, Gal. 2.15-21, Eph. 2.1-10)? Have you considered that Rome, in the Council of Trent, declared, “If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof: let him be anathema” (Sixth Session, Decree on Justification, Canon XXIV)?
Have you considered the extreme literalness with which Rome interprets passages such as I Pet. 3.21 (“Baptism…now saves you”) or Mt. 26.26-29, Mk. 14.22-25, Lk. 22.14-23, I Cor. 11.23-26 (“This (bread) is my body,” “This cup (of wine) is the new covenant in my blood”)?
Have you considered that, in enjoining its members to pray to Mary and the saints for intercession, the Roman Catholic Church disregards what Paul says in I Tim. 2.5 (For…there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”)? At what point does Rome’s iconodulism (service to icons) become iconolatry (worship of icons)?
Again, you say you “like liturgical churches that follow the lectionary”. Is the (Revised Common) Lectionary an idol for you? Have you investigated if any churches near you practice the Lectio Continua (that is, preaching through whole books of the Bible)? Is this not a preferred practice to parsing Scripture, as the RCL and other Lectionaries do, in order to conform to the procrustean bed of someone’s idea of a “Christian calendar”, something not even remotely suggested in Scripture?
Comment by John on May 4, 2020 at 5:49 pm
Careful you do not rehearse the quarrels of the Reformation when it is the case that all Churches have changed considerably since that time in both form and substance.
Comment by Loren J Golden on May 4, 2020 at 6:17 pm
I have not “rehearsed (all) the quarrels of the Reformation,” and the Roman Catholic Church has not “changed considerably,” even if it now regards Protestants as “separated brethren.” Nevertheless, Rome arrogates to herself still the title of the “One True Church,” to the exclusion of Protestant churches, she has not changed her doctrine denying Justification by Faith Alone, nor has she recanted the anathemas of Trent issued against those who still today hold to it as “the article on which the Church stands or falls.”
Comment by Jeffrey on May 1, 2020 at 4:04 pm
I was raised Baptist and converted to Catholicism in 2012. Come home to the Truth. The Church has Her problems, but She is the Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ. The Baptist sect was just invented a couple of hundred years and they will not even accept your baptism as valid.
Comment by Angel Bonilla on May 6, 2020 at 1:59 pm
No “The Church” but just one of the branches of “The Church”.
Comment by jerry kabat on May 1, 2020 at 11:05 pm
Having been raised in the Catholic Church I can tell you that the Mass is a beautiful ritual meant to bring you into Communion with our triune God every Sunday. There are doctrinal issues, but what human religious institution doesn’t have one kind of issue or another? The Catholic Church is on the right side concerning the major cultural battles of this day. I suggest that you prayerfully seek God’s will and discern as best you can the path He chooses for you.
Comment by Walter Pryor on May 2, 2020 at 12:23 pm
What do you think of the present Pope? He is busy working to make this world peaceful by compromising with Islam.
Comment by richard on May 2, 2020 at 12:27 am
Perhaps you’ve experienced church via the internet over the past month or so. Find one you like and get plugged into one of their online studies (pun intended)! Many options on the internet that offer real interpersonal relationships that can be meaningful if you are willing to try something orthodox, historical and yet different.
Comment by Loren J Golden on April 30, 2020 at 3:08 pm
The last time I changed churches, for a reason other than geographic relocation due to job change, was in 1991, when at age 24 I left a theologically liberal United Methodist congregation in Wichita, Kansas (in fact, the same church where my parents and maternal grandparents had been married, and where I had been baptized as an infant), for an evangelical Presbyterian congregation, also in Wichita, then affiliated with the PC(USA) and now affiliated with the EPC.
I had been becoming increasingly dissatisfied with how the Word of God was handled from the pulpit at the UMC congregation for some time. The senior pastor would set his own context into which the associate pastor would read the Scripture, and then after the choir sang the morning anthem, he would proceed to preach on whatever he wanted to speak, irrespective of what the passage read that morning actually said. At Eastminster, by contrast, the senior pastor (then Frank Kik) read the Scripture and then exegetically preached on it, in a manner that clearly communicated that he believed what it said. The following week I attended the progressive UMC congregation for the last time (because I had to return a book I had been borrowing for Sunday School), and after that I began attending Eastminster regularly, for the Gospel of Jesus Christ was (and still is) unapologetically preached there, whereas it was not (and still is not) being preached at the progressive UMC congregation. I left quietly, transferring my membership to Eastminster that fall, and have never regretted that decision. And because of Eastminster’s lasting influence on my spiritual development, both congregations that I joined after leaving Wichita—Colonial (PC(USA), now EPC) in Kansas City and Denton (PCA) in Denton, Texas—have been Bible-believing, Gospel-preaching Presbyterian churches.
Comment by Joe M on April 30, 2020 at 11:21 pm
It would help to list those churches whose leadership remains true to tradition. A faithful poster in No. Va.?! Come on!
Comment by Abel Adamson on May 1, 2020 at 3:11 pm
I’m a member in Cal-Pac Conf and we are being led off a cliff with few of our churches that will go traditional. How can my family traditional friends find churches in the Cal-Pac that will likely go traditional? This process is truly frightening and many people I have spoken with say they don’t know where to turn for reliable trustworthy information. We feel threatened and many have said this experience may keep them from gathering with the body thenceforward. I appreciate that you, Mark, feel you have clarity and a choice. For many of us there is a dark sense of foreboding. Dear God, please guide and direct us… we need you, we feel abandoned by our church and clergy.
Comment by William on May 1, 2020 at 4:12 pm
The division is underway. I know this doesn’t help you now, but this is the beginning. Don’t know when WCA will start publishing these congregations. Please consider joining WCA so as to at least have a support system until the division becomes official. As for liberal conferences, they should be ripe for the planting new traditional Methodist churches affiliated with the “new” traditional denomination emerging.
————————————————
As a service to those who frequently contact us for information about churches in their area who are traditional in their scriptural, doctrinal, and ethical positions, the Wesleyan Covenant Association is going to begin listing such churches by annual conference on our website (www.wesleyancovenant.org). We will only do so with the permission of the senior pastor of such churches and we will only list churches that affirm the WCA’s statements on biblical authority, faith, and moral principles.
If you would like to have your church listed, we invite you to provide the necessary information to have your church listed by completing the Church Listing Authorization Form which you may download below and having it signed by the senior pastor of the church.
Please email the completed form to Teresa Marcus, Executive Assistant to the President, at tmarcus@wesleyancovenant.org.
The list on our website will contain the church’s name, pastor’s name, physical address, website, email, and a link to or information about its online service if such information is provided.
For your information, the introductory paragraph to the page setting forth the information will state:
“The churches below affirm the statements on biblical authority, faith, and moral principles of the Wesleyan Covenant Association. If you are looking for a church that teaches and lives out the historic Christian faith in the Wesleyan tradition, we commend these churches to you. The listing of a church does not mean that they are a member of the Wesleyan Covenant Association.”
The list will be updated continually. If you submit the attached form, please monitor the list periodically to ensure that your information is correct.
In Christ,
Keith Boyette, President
Wesleyan Covenant Association
Comment by Dan Henry on May 1, 2020 at 4:33 pm
Your story is almost like mine. On February 2 the pastor, with the support of a few old white liberals, in a United Methodist church a half-mile from my house of which I had been a member for 42 1/2 years, in the lay leadership for 40 years, and an unpaid lay minister of evangelism and discipleship for 17 years announced that the church was becoming a reconciling congregation. I picked up my stuff, threw my church keys on the pastor’s desk, and drove 7 1/2 miles to a traditionalist United Methodist church. I never looked back and have never been as blessed in a church as I am in the traditionalist church. It’s the best thing I ever did.
Comment by Naomi Lackey on May 1, 2020 at 7:16 pm
I have been a Methodist, all my life. I was raised in a Wesleyan Meth church. I loved the whole congregation, when I was a kid. That did not change, when I became an adult, although I was a ‘church drop out’, in my teen years. But, when I knew my life was not what it should be, I remembered all those folks that had loved me, as a kid. They were all the happiest people I had ever known. They had always talked, & preached, about giving your life to God. When I was in my 20’s, I decided to give it a ‘shot’. I wanted that joy & happiness they all had. They were all poor, hard working, exceptional people led by Brother Brittain. I got on my knees & did what they had said was necessary. Within a couple pf days,, I had the most remarkable experience of my life- I went to church & got baptized. Have never regretted it. Now, because of the direction they are going, I go to a non-denomination Family church. I know I cannot be Catholic. I didn’t want what I have seen of Baptist. I admire the history of the Wesley brothers & all they did to give us the Methodist church. In my heart, I will always be a Methodist, because of this. History does matter. But, the direction the church is going is so against everything Jesus said -the Kingdom of God is at hand. Every time He says that, he’s giving the opportunity to change what we are doing. He did sit with all people. He did accept all people. His heart grieves for all people. He even shared in their ‘parties’, but, He never participated in their ‘ways’. He would go to the garden & cry, because He knew they wanted Him to be like them. It was easier to try to make Him like them, than it was for them to see how much He had to offer. People are still trying to make Him like us– can’t happen. I have no problem with music directors, etc. But, I cannot agree with the pulpit being occupied by someone who openly, with pride, does exactly what God says not to do. It is addressed over & over, in the Bible. We cannot blatantly disregard this truth. The pulpit is always under or in front of the cross. For the reason for this ‘split’ to be put into the pulpit, is crucifying Jesus over & over, again. I am not worthy of what He has done for me. I cannot, in good conscience, say the sexual orientation is meaningless. God made us ‘man & woman’ & He said ‘that is good’. Now, the world is trying to say He did not know what He was talking about. I love being in the church building- I’ll be glad when they can open, again. My heart wants to celebrate the faith & music of ‘church’. Without that, I cannot be the ‘church’. The Methodist church had the best logo– that flame & cross, Father , Son & Holy spirit. but, people are forgetting what the Holy Spirit wants– they ware making it what they, as humans, want. They haven’t learned how to love the person, while not agreeing with their lifestyle. That does not make us judgmental nor hypocritical. We do NOT know who is going to heaven or not. But, making the church a vessel of earthly behavior, no matter how wrong, will not help the issue. The church cannot change it’s tenet just to appease the crowds. Jesus didn’t. This grieves the heart of God. I DO know about grieving the heart of God. I’m sure I still do- even though I gave Him my life. I can apologize to Him. But, changing His church is bigger than any apology can ever cover.. The leaders are doing what THEY want, without any word from God. His word, the Bible, has already told us what He wants.
Comment by Jim on May 8, 2020 at 9:42 am
Well said Naomi!
Comment by Loy Leslie on May 1, 2020 at 7:24 pm
Help are there any in Maine
Comment by Paul Reed on May 2, 2020 at 11:04 am
The problem with changing your UMC church based on what the pastor says is that you might be changing every 1 to 3 years as the Bishop and Cabinet move pastors around. What I think we may see in the future is “what is the DNA of the congregation”? If the local church is liberal or conservative their pastor MAY be assigned based on that also and stay that way. Or the agenda may be to break a congregation by sending them an ultra liberal / conservative pastor to herd them into the “right” path. This has specifically happened with congregations who balked at women pastors, or cross racial or cultural barriers. It can go both ways.
No easy answers. Just be prepared for a lot of mix up and chaos regardless of what you do.
Comment by Lizzie Warren on May 3, 2020 at 7:30 am
When my daughter and her family moved to Northern Virginia they started looking for a church. They were considering a Methodist Church.
I told her to look elsewhere. Why join a new church only to be involved in a divisive fight right away.
The found a Bible believing, independent church and couldn’t be happier.
Comment by James E Kilgore on May 4, 2020 at 9:54 am
After more than 25 years in ministry, primarily American Baptist in alliance, I bought a retirement home and founded a Biblical church within the gated community. Twenty-three years later, although we had no “progressive” people, the church was nearly destroyed by personalities who attended the “walk” weekend. They became more like gnostics who wanted to improve the congregation by imposing a “walk” type weekend as the test for genuine spirituality. Rather than preside over a split, I retired and moved. The point is that even those who claim the Biblical doctrines/traditions can be divided by strong personality types. The UMC is not only facing some Biblical issues but is being threatened by “loud” personalities and divisive leaders. Jesus prayed for His church (followers) in John 17 that we would be one in Him. May we witness a repenting, renewed and consecrated group of pastors who will lead us to the holiness John Wesley preached!
Comment by Jeff Smith on May 4, 2020 at 2:34 pm
I truly understand your stance Mark. I had to leave my UMC because conference appointed my church a very liberal pastor. He was more like a UU. I think our conference was testing the water so to speak. Long story short, our church went from two services totaling 200 people down to 50 people. I am very happy with my new UMC. We have a contemporary early service that my wife and I love.
Comment by Gene Knol on May 4, 2020 at 9:56 pm
I made that move a year ago. The only downside is my one-way drive to church went from 10 minutes to 30 minutes. I miss some friends but the new church is awesome and I truly appreciate the bible based messages.