U.S. Flags in Churches?

on July 4, 2013

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Last July 4 Christianity Today published an exchange on U.S. flags in church sanctuaries, with pastor/theologian Douglas Wilson arguing no and Southern Baptist ethicist Russell Moore saying yes. Moore has since become the new head of his church’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, and his argument is compelling.

Wilson says churches have “absolutely no business displaying a national flag in the sanctuary” so as to avoid “unnecessary barriers to the worship of visiting Koreans, Russians, or Portuguese.” He’s also worried that the flag would imply “‘favored nation’ status,” exaggerate “claims of Caesar,” or meld “patriotism and religion.” He says we are unlikely to display another country’s flag, such as communist China’s. Wilson hopes church elders will display their flag on their pickup truck, “right next to the gun rack,” but not in the church.

The point about not displaying another country’s flag in a U.S. church doesn’t make much sense. Churches display their own country’s flag because that is where God has placed them, and that is the nation entrusted to their care. It’s doubtful that “visiting Koreans” or any nationality would object to a U.S. flag any more than an American visiting overseas would object to seeing that nation’s flag displayed. (The church I attended for years displayed dozens of national flags, including I believe the Chinese, during its annual missions conference to signify where missions are supported.)

In response to Wilson, Moore admits “patriotism is dangerous…but that’s because it’s a strong natural affection that’s rooted in something good and right…akin to what God commands us to do in showing honor to our father and mother.” Moore notes:

When we honor our country, we are recognizing that we are not self-made or self-situated. We are here, placed by God in a particular plot of land because of the sacrifices of forefathers and foremothers we haven’t known. We have a responsibility to our neighbors of all faiths for the generations to come. Patriotism can become idolatrous, sure. So can family affection. But the gospel doesn’t evaporate family love. It just re-narrates it, and situates it in a right context, in which we seek first the kingdom of God. The same is true for the flag. Removing a flag doesn’t remove the tendency to idolatry or triumphalism; it just leaves such things unaddressed and untroubled. If a congregation already has a flag in the sanctuary, the first step might be for the pastor to use it as an object lesson in a right-ordered patriotism.

Well said. Critics of the flag as competition to God should even more so denounce the “idolatry” of loving family, which Christ addressed directly when rhetorically admonishing to “hate” mother and father if they obstruct obedience to the Kingdom. The flag reminds Christians of their civil and sacred duty to love and serve persons in their own community of nation, wherever that is. Providence uses nations for His own purposes no less than all other human institutions.

There’s also the issue that sometimes arch Protestants have trouble accepting the importance of symbols in the architecture of worship. Sometimes they almost prefer a sterile gymnasium with folding chairs and glowing exit signs. But churches that revere tradition as a record of God’s interactions with His people across time can and should esteem signs of that church’s history, culture, and spiritual expedition, which for most, includes the flag of the nation to which God has assigned them. It’s also my observation that the flag becomes an issue primarily to clergy, who sometimes remove it without consulting the congregation, hoping nobody will notice, as Moore mentions. On this issue, as on others, often the laity are more intuitively correct theologically than are the pastors.

  1. Comment by Dean Allen on July 5, 2013 at 12:44 am

    Douglas Wilson needs to read Romans Chapter 13 in its entirety (its short) to see that he is wrong. Frankly, I would not want to attend any church that had a problem with the US flag.

    The Good Book also says to do things decently, and in order. That means displaying the US flag to the audience’s left and higher than any other flag displayed.

  2. Comment by oksana on July 2, 2018 at 6:57 am

    Nowhere in that chapter it says anything about the display of a country flag in church. More than certain, the first Christians didn’t waive Roman flag around either. What about separation of the church and the state after all? The flag has no place in a church!

  3. Comment by paynehollow on July 5, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Dean, in most if not nearly all Amish, Mennonite and anabaptist faith communities, you will not find a US (or “christian”) flag a-flying. We see it as a competing alliance and misguided loyalty.

    Is there any biblical precedent for flying a national flag? Can you imagine Jesus and the early church flying a Roman (or Jewish) flag?? I mean, seriously, can you imagine that?

    Mark said….

    Churches display their own country’s flag because that is where God has placed them, and that is the nation entrusted to their care.

    But why? Why should we fly a flag? If you were in a Chinese church, do you expect that they would feel compelled to fly the flag of the nation that doesn’t even allow them to meet hardly?

    The Bible tells us in many ways and places that our allegiance is to be with God, not a nation.

    I just don’t get what could possibly compel us to want to fly a national flag. What is the reasoning behind this human, entirely unbiblical and recent tradition? I mean, as far as I know, isn’t this tradition entirely recent and tied to US traditions, not Christian or biblical ones? (I think flying the flag began during the Civil War, unless I’m mistaken).

    Sometimes I fear that we can begin a new tradition, let 100 years go by and then that tradition assumes the mantel of “God-ordained” and scandalous to disagree with. Something to watch out for, seems to me.

    ~Dan Trabue

  4. Comment by ramonestevez83 on July 5, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    I totally agree: “What is the reasoning, entirely unbiblical and recent tradition?”

    That would perfect describe same-sex “marriage.”

    People are amazingly selective in how they employ “unbiblical.”

    FYI, people were flying flags several centuries before the Civil War.

  5. Comment by paynehollow on July 5, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    I’m not sure how same sex marriage fits into this discussion.

    And I apologize if I was unclear: I meant that people have not been flying flags in their churches until fairly recently. The topic of the post is flags in churches. THAT is what I was speaking of.

    ~Dan

  6. Comment by ramonestevez83 on July 6, 2013 at 8:41 am

    It fits into the discussion because you referred to flags in churches as “unbiblical.” That is precisely the word orthodox Christians would apply to same-sex “marriage.” My point was that you show no consistency about the use of “unbiblical.” For Christians who take “biblical” seriously, flags in churches would fall into a gray area, but same-sex “marriage” would not. God made his will pretty clear on that subject.

    If I kept a log of the left’s laughable inconsistencies on my computer, my hard drive would explode. I enjoy this website because many thoughtful Christians bring up some intelligent points, so I learn a lot, but I must admit that the amusing comments from the left are a part of the pleasure too, such as:
    flags in churches = bad
    gay “marriage” = good

    “Strain out a gnat and swallow a camel.”

  7. Comment by paynehollow on July 7, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Not to dwell on an off topic comment, but raising a flag in a church IS unbiblical. It is not in there. That is a fact. Being opposed to marriage between gay folk is ALSO unbiblical. It is not in there.

    That you all justify your position using the Bible does not make it “biblical.”

    The point I’m making is not to say “It’s not in the Bible, therefore, it must be wrong.” My point is, “This is not a traditional church position, it’s not a biblical church position. It’s not a rational position. On what basis, then, would we be offended if flags were not in a sanctuary?”

    Where specifically am I mistaken on this flag topic? Or is this just a red herring or perhaps an ad hom attack, not based on rationality or biblicality or tradition, just on emotions and cultural biases?

    ~Dan Trabue

  8. Comment by ramonestevez83 on July 7, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    “This is not a traditional church position, it’s not a biblical church position. It’s not a rational position.”

    Yep, that pretty much sums up homosexual “marriage.” Bible, tradition, reason, and also experience – the four pillars, not one supportive of gay “marriage.”

    Also, you are totally mistaken on the flag topic. Completely. Feel free to call this disagreement (as usual) an ad hom, even though it isn’t, or as cultural bias, even though it isn’t. The Bible tells us to be good citizens, also tells us that our supreme obedience is to God, not government. Those two basic truths provide no clear mandate for or against flags in churches. I’m sure Christians who are suffering persecution in various locales might think it’s very callous of comfortable American churchgoers to even be debating such trifling issues. Come to think of it, they’d also wonder why the marriage of Bob and Kevin is supposed to be some kind of high priority for churches, or why the subject would even be discussed by people who supposedly receive their moral standards from God and not Hustler.

    I would think with Obamessiah in the White House the Left would be in full patriot mode now. Maybe they didn’t get the memo: George Bush left the White House in Jan 2009, government is now GOOD, the politial Messiah will make all things well.

    ~ Ad Hom

  9. Pingback by End Times Prophecy Headlines: July 5, 2013 | End Times Prophecy Report on July 5, 2013 at 9:18 am

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  10. Comment by markobeast on July 5, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    >> Douglas Wilson needs to read Romans Chapter 13

    And where exactly in Romans 13 does Paul instruct Christians to festoon their places of worship with symbols of Caesar’s dominion?

    >> It’s doubtful that “visiting Koreans” or any nationality
    >> would object to a U.S. flag

    So I take it that the writer would not have any problem attending a German church in 1941 where Nazi flags were placed at the front of the sanctuary? I assume the writer, had he been alive and living in Missouri in 1861, would not have had any objection to the Federal government placing US (can we say “northern”) flags in his southern (can we say “Confederate”) church when the Federals captured his state?

    Patriotism and nationalism are strong drugs that all too often blind their adherents.

  11. Comment by Dean Allen on July 5, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    1. You are factually wrong. The flying of national flags did not originate during the 1860-65 War Between The States. Flags in the modern sense are way over 1,000 years old and the Romans, Chinese, and other civilizations displayed some sort of national banner of standard for thousands of years before that.

    2. If I was visiting Nazi Germany between 1933 and December 8, 1941 when they declared war on us, I would not have been offended by patriotic Germans displaying their national flags in German churches. As the Nazi regime consolidated power they suppressed religions, particularly the Jewish and Catholic (even though Hitler was raised in a nominally Catholic home.) The Nazi state attempted to create its own state religion based loosely on ideals they believed were pre-Christian pagan religions of the “Aryans.” Thus, I doubt by 1945 you had a lot of Churches open in Germany – with or without flags. Note for the record: I have no use for the Nazis, and I am very glad my Daddy and six uncles fought them in WW II.

    3. Southerners did display Confederate flags in churches and in the camps of our armies in the field. The Confederate army was very Christian in overall composition. Generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson were particularly devout and both men reportedly studied the Bible daily even when in the field and prayed daily for the souls of the boys being killed, Union and Confederate. Confederate Lt. General Leonidas K. Polk, a cousin of president James K. Polk, was the Episcopal bishop of New Orleans before the war started. I am sure there were also good Christians on the Yankee side as well and would not have been offended by a US flag displayed in a Northern church.

    4. My understanding is the red Chinese, and North Koreans, as communists are atheists and do not allow churches, so flags in them are irrelevant. Any Chinese or Koreans visiting a church here would not be communists and I cannot imagine them being offended by our flag while visiting our churches.

    5. In addition to the Amish and the Mennonites, I understand the Jehovah’s Witnesses also do not display or salute flags. I believe in freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I would never seek to impose any requirements upon them to display a flag if they did not believe in it even if they are wrong on that – and they are. When they visit my church, I want them to see a flag and know they are in the presence of patriotic Americans.

    6. Please read Romans, Chapter 13. Particularly Chapter thirteen and verses six and seven.

    7. God Almighty created and ordained marriage, the family, the church, and the nation. Jesus told us to render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s. There is no hostility between government and church – not to sound like a broken record, but read Romans 13. Please.

    8. I am not on any crusade to have any body of Believers who choose not to display a flag forced to do so. However, I want to see one and want any visitor where i am to see it too. There is nothing unBiblical about displaying the flag. Electric lights were not invented till around 1876, no reasonable person would argue they are unBiblical, just because they are modern.

  12. Comment by paynehollow on July 6, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Dean…

    You are factually wrong. The flying of national flags did not originate during the 1860-65

    I apologize if I was unclear. As noted below, I was speaking of the topic of this post – flying flags in churches, which appears to have begun sometime relatively recently, perhaps during the Civil War.

    My point was that flying flags in churches is a new wrinkle, not biblical and not traditional.

    Look, I don’t care if you want to fly a flag in your church sanctuary. I wouldn’t attend one that did so, but I don’t judge those that do so harshly.

    What I don’t get is the whole, “…but I wouldn’t want to go to a church that didn’t…” Why would you think that, unless you think it’s wrong to not fly a flag. But on what possible basis would you think it’s wrong to do this?

    I’m quite familiar with Romans 13. Nothing in there suggesting we ought to fly a flag in church sanctuaries. Nothing.

    That’s my point.

    ~Dan

  13. Comment by markobeast on July 5, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    >> You are factually wrong. The flying of national flags did
    >> not originate during the 1860-65 War Between The States.

    I never stated that such a practice started during the American Civil War. The point of my comments were to show that a flag in a church sanctuary CAN be an offensive and divisive symbol. A flag represents more than just a token geographic reminder.

    An American flag, for example, is a symbol that can represent different things to different people. For some, it stands for freedom and justice; but for others: military hubris, racial inequality, and unbridled capitalism. Regardless of one’s response, a national flag will always be divisive, for it states that I am this and others are that. Why then are such symbols found in churches across America? A national symbol no more belongs in a place of worship than does a racist symbol. At the very least, it is a distraction. The possibility that a flag may stir up negative thoughts among members and visitors who have come to worship makes the use of such symbols wholly inappropriate.

    >> Flags in the modern sense are way over 1,000 years old and the
    >> Romans, Chinese, and other civilizations displayed some sort of
    >> national banner of standard for thousands of years before that.

    No one is denying that Romans and Chinese have had flags for centuries. The issue at hand is not the origin of flags and flag bearing, but national flags in a church. Can you provide historical proof of the existence of national flags in CHRISTIAN churches 1000 years ago? In China?

    >> Jesus told us to render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s

    Yes, and a Christian’s hope, life and loyalty belongs to God, not to Caesar. Caesar gets our taxes; God: our hope, life and allegiance. A national flag in a prominent position in a place where we come to remember God is totally out of place.

    When believers gather, they do so as the body of Christ, not as an American organization. “One Lord, one faith, one baptism” is what true Christianity is about. Not “one nation under God.” We are bound to our brothers and sisters in Christ throughout the world, and there should not be even the slightest hint that national borders have any significance for our oneness.

    >> Please read Romans, Chapter 13. Particularly Chapter thirteen
    >> and verses six and seven.

    Romans 13:6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

    I fail to see where the instruction to place national symbols in a house of worship can be found in the above verses. The focus of these two verses is on paying taxes, not on placing a mark of a beast in the house of God.

    Lest you think that I am too rough with my language, try performing a Bible study on the topic of “beasts” in the Bible, when it comes to symbols. Governments and empires are frequently described as “beasts” throughout the Bible. This being a fact, a national flag is therefore a “mark” of a beast.

    >> Southerners did display Confederate flags in churches and
    >> in the camps of our armies in the field.

    You missed my point. I wasn’t questioning whether rebel flags appeared in rebel churches. Instead, I provided you with an example during the Civil War where a flag placed in a church was A DIVISIVE SYMBOL. The Feds forcibly placed the stars and stripes in southern churches when a Confederate state was captured.

    >> The Confederate army was very Christian in overall composition.
    >> Generals Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson were particularly
    >> devout and both men reportedly studied the Bible daily

    Yes, of course… Men who study the Bible (southerners) just before they attempt to kill other men (men who most likely also study the Bible, aka northern Christians) are most definitely to be esteemed by their posterity as “devout”. Not! Blowing the brains out of one’s neighbors across the Mason-Dixon line doesn’t seem to be one of the “fruits of the spirit” that devout followers of Jesus should be bearing.

    >> Confederate Lt. General Leonidas K. Polk, a cousin
    >> of president James K. Polk, was the Episcopal bishop
    >> of New Orleans before the war started.

    Yes, and he was hit dead on by a long distance “lucky shot” cannon ball. What a great way for a follower of the Prince of Peace to die: with a sword in hand.

    >> I am sure there were also good Christians on the Yankee
    >> side as well and would not have been offended by a US flag
    >> displayed in a Northern church.

    You’ve obviously missed my point. The point was not rebel flags in rebel churches, or Federal flags in northern churches. The point was to show how divisive and offensive the Fed’s stars and stripes would have been in the conquered rebel/Confederate churches.

  14. Comment by Michael George on September 22, 2016 at 11:20 pm

    Agree. A church building is where heaven meets earth. Believers enter a sacred space seeking God’s kingdom and the worldly should not be allowed to become a distraction. National flags, sports banners, political posters, fashion or celebrity idolatry has its place in the world, not in God’s kingdom.

  15. Comment by Greg Paley on July 5, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    I have no strong feelings about flags in churches, one way or the other, except I’ve observed that liberals seem to oppose them (because they flags with conservatives), also some of the loopier sects like the Jehos–ironic, given that they seem to be such law-abiding citizens. Obviously our ultimate loyalty is to God, not the state, something that is becoming a live issue, given the current president’s rather open contempt for Christianity.

    I used to live near a Unitarian church, and on patriotic holidays like July 4, Memorial Day, etc they would hang the UN flag on the front of the church. I learned later that they also had a UN flag inside the sanctuary at all times. I don’t call that patriotism, I call it psychosis.

    This Douglas Wilson is an idiot if he’s fretting about visiting foreigners being “offended” by an American flag in an American church. If they’re that touchy, let them find another church.

  16. Comment by markobeast on July 6, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    >> If they’re that touchy, let them find another church.

    And how would you reconcile your advice (above) with teachings of the apostle Paul, such as when he wrote:

    Romans 15:1 We who are strong ought to put up with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

    Romans 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.

    1 Corinthians 8:9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.

    ???

  17. Comment by gregpaley on July 7, 2013 at 6:51 am

    I’m not sure I understand your comments. If a foreigner is visiting an American church and is offended by the sight of an American flag, I don’t think “weak in faith” is the term I would use to describe him. However, toleration of “disputable matters” cuts both ways, doesn’t it? If he’s a strong Christian, shouldn’t he be overlooking my church’s “weak” faith in displaying an American flag?

    The irksome thing about all this Political Correctness it seems to be rooted in the fear of what MIGHT happen – i.e., let’s not put a flag in the sanctuary, some poor sensitive soul MIGHT be offended. I’m sure some murderer or adulterer MIGHT be offended at a sermon on the Ten Commandments, but I guess we can never please anyone, can we? I really can’t accept this notion that the church’s mission is to make everyone feel comfortable and unoffended. I notice in the NT that Jesus and the apostles offended a lot of people. The Bible never says that we have to sell the gospel in such a way that every human being will accept it, that’s never going to happen.

  18. Comment by paynehollow on July 7, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Interestingly, it seems to me the only possible reason FOR flying a flag is “political correctness…” That is, my American church members REALLY like the US flag so, in order to keep them happy, we should fly a US flag in my church. It’s what we’ve done for several generations now…

    I just asked this question at my blog: I understand the many reasons for not flying a flag, but what is the reason(s) TO fly a flag? It’s not biblical, it’s not traditional (beyond the last 150 years, anyway – it seems to be almost entirely tied to modern US traditions/political correctness) and I can think of no rational or moral reason TO fly a flag. What is it?

    In reading the original Christianity Today article, their reasons for flying a flag was to serve as a reminder that laying down one’s life is Godly and to remind us to pray for our nation. Okay, but we can do that without the flag and the problems that might come with it. So, why fly it?

    Does anyone here have a simple response to this?

    Thanks,

    Dan Trabue

  19. Comment by gregpaley on July 7, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    You must be kidding. There is nothing Politically Correct about displaying the American flag. I never known one single liberal who would put a flag in front of his house, or have it on a lapel pin or bumper sticker. It affects them the way a cross affects vampires (or the faculty at Claremont School of Theology). The PC types associate flags with the great unwashed that they look down on. That’s why I mentioned the Unitarian clowns and their UN flag. They have such a high opinion of themselves that they regard themselves as working for the good of “the world,” not their own country – and, come to think of it, the left definitely is not working for the good of the country. Or world.

    If putting an American flag in the sanctuary would drive the liberals out, I say, Go for it, I’ll be happy to hold the door for them.

  20. Comment by paynehollow on July 8, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    Greg…

    There is nothing Politically Correct about displaying the American flag. I never known one single liberal who would put a flag in front of his house…

    Greg, I think you are misunderstanding the definition of the term. The MW definition of “politically correct…”

    conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated

    Being politically correct does not equate to being liberal. It is avoiding/eliminating that behavior which could offend political sensibilities – that can be conservative, liberal or other politics. Now you get my point?

    As to the rest, I know plenty of liberals who fly flags and wear flag pins, etc. Real world evidence conflicts with that claim.

    Why would you wish to drive out your liberal brothers and sisters in Christ from your church? At our church, all are welcome, even conservatives. Ha.

    Do you think it’s sinful to NOT fly a flag at churches? If so, why? On what basis?

    That’s all I’m asking and have yet to hear a good answer for.

    ~Dan Trabue

  21. Comment by gregpaley on July 9, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    No one said it was sinful NOT to fly a flag in church. Try responding to what people say, not what they don’t say. Also, the flag issue is trivial, except that it was comical to watch a left-winger suddenly discover the word “biblical,” not exactly one of their favorite words.

    I couldn’t care less what MW says, everyone knows that PC means, in practice, liberals pandering to various annoying groups of grievance-mongers, people whose identity is tied up with being “victims.” It is not PC to pander to conservatives and Christians, on the contrary, hating either group is very PC. So, nothing PC about an American flag in church – quite the opposite.

    No, I don’t mind liberals fleeing the churches – however, the ones doing the fleeing are the conservatives, who have to find God-centered churches elsewhere. But this is all to the good. There is no point in pretending that liberals and evangelicals have anything in common, other than one group uses the names “God” and “Jesus” in vain, which violates one of the Ten Commandments. When the left uses “Jesus” and “God” to promote a radical social agenda that is completely at odds with His will, they are no brothers and sisters of mine. I don’t hate people like that, I just can’t approve of their cynical use of religion, it isn’t right. Issues like sexuality do at least have the positive effect of separating the believers from the pew-fillers. To quote Moses, “Who is on the Lord’s side?”

  22. Comment by markobeast on July 7, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Greg >> I notice in the NT that Jesus and the
    Greg >> apostles offended a lot of people.

    The apostles were only offensive with regards to their stand for the truth of the word of God. Their offense had nothing to do with advocating that their converts festoon their houses and catacombs with national symbols that honored Caesar.

    Greg >> If he’s a strong Christian, shouldn’t he
    Greg >> be overlooking my church’s “weak” faith
    Greg >> in displaying an American flag?

    The “smart-aleck” response would be that a strong Christian wouldn’t be attending a church which displayed an American flag.

    Greg >> I’m sure some murderer or adulterer MIGHT
    Greg >> be offended at a sermon on the Ten Commandments

    The ten commandments are scriptural injunctions. Displaying a mark of a beast (government) is not a scriptural injunction. In fact, a mark of a beast should be refused by those who have the mark of their Father in their foreheads (see Revelation 13 & 14:1).

    Greg >> The Bible never says that we have to sell the
    Greg >> gospel in such a way that every human being
    Greg >> will accept it, that’s never going to happen.

    We are not discussing the gospel. We are discussing the presence of a national symbol (a mark of a beast) in a place where God is to be worshiped.

  23. Comment by gregpaley on July 7, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    Sorry, I don’t do discussions of Revelation for the simple reason that there is not nor ever has been any consensus about interpreting its symbolism. I see it as a book of comfort for persecuted Christians, and it has served that purpose admirably for 1900 years.

    I have a flag on my house. Does that make me a “beast” devotee? I also have a fish decal on my car bumper. Maybe it and the flag cancel each other out. 🙂

  24. Comment by Dean Allen on July 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    Let’s see, the lefties, posing as Christians, are now taking the position nothing can be in a Church unless it is REQUIRED by scripture and there is an accurate historical record Jesus and the apostles used it regularly?

    O.K.

    That eliminates:

    Stained glass windows.
    Glass windows of any sort.
    Bibles printed since Guttenberg invented moveable type.
    Microphones
    speakers & amplifiers
    PA systems
    electric lights
    telephones
    copiers
    fax machines
    refrigerators
    ballpoint pens
    neckties
    clocks and watches (not just the electric ones either!)
    projectors
    power point presentations & LCD projectors
    Air conditioning
    carpet on the floor derived from hydrocarbons
    ditto for most paint & glue.
    automobiles
    asphalt parking lots
    Organs & pianos
    Were the collection plate, and the communion dishes, made in a factory using methods less than 2000 years old? If so, they are gone too.

    And it probably wipes out running water and indoor plumbing as well.

    I am to a point where I am really, really, really, really, tired of foreigners and lefties telling me what offends them. It is time they worried about what offends me!

    Your freedom to express your opinion, and to worship as you choose was won for you by the blood of better men than you (American soldiers). Take those away, and the despots of the world WILL take away your bible and church. If you are too doggone stupid to get that, then it is time for me to remember the passage of scripture instructing Paul to shake the dust off his feet when he left someone who rejected the truth.

    I am offended that anyone, Christian or otherwise, wants to live in this country and complain about the American flag. Haul your sorry butt to Cuba of North Korea and don’t come back till you get your head straight.

  25. Comment by ramonestevez83 on July 7, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    Well said, bro. It truly is funny to see the same people who utterly trash the concept of “biblical” then suddenly go “biblical” over a really IMPORTANT issue like flags.

    One rule for understanding the left: they emote, they pose, they condemn, but they do not THINK, ever.

  26. Comment by paynehollow on July 8, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    I, for one, have never “trashed” the “concept of biblical” (whatever that means). I love the Bible. I respect the Bible. I take the Bible seriously, as do my fellow Christians in my circles. Disagreeing with a fellow Christian about an interpretation is not the same as “trashing,” seems to me.

    Also, instead of attacking the people, I think the rational and respectful thing to do would be to engage the topic, if you want to communicate. If you want to just engage in name-calling and demonization, I’d suggest not doing so as a Christian.

    Do you have any comments on my actual points? Do we all agree that there is no command to raise a flag in church services? That it is rather silly to NOT go to a church simply because that faith community chooses not to have a flag in their service? That, in fact, we have no reason to consider NOT having flags in church to be wrong or sinful?

    Come dear brothers in Christ, let us reason together.

    ~Dan Trabue

  27. Comment by paynehollow on July 7, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    I am sorry if you are offended that Christians like me and the millions of anabaptists (people who led the way in many ways of defending religious liberty – and did so without guns or bombs) don’t want to have a flag in our church. My point was not that “If it’s not in the Bible, it’s not okay.” You can tell that isn’t my position by the way I never said that (ha!), if you’re interested.

    I, for one, am not complaining about the US flag. But neither do I/we feel any rational, biblical or moral reason why we should display it in our church.

    Setting aside your rather combative and divisive comments, Dean, do you have any rational, biblical or moral reason why we should fly a flag in our Christian church services, if we’re not inclined to do so?

    You say…

    Your freedom to express your opinion, and to worship as you choose was won for you by the blood of better men than you (American soldiers). Take those away, and the despots of the world WILL take away your bible and church.

    …and I will note that you are free to trust in soldiers, bombs and guns for your religious liberty – truly, you are welcome to that belief – but I feel morally and rationally compelled to trust in God for my religious liberty, not warring.

    ~Dan Trabue

  28. Comment by paynehollow on July 7, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    Dean…

    Let’s see, the lefties, posing as Christians, are now taking the position nothing can be in a Church

    Besides the mistaken reading of my/our actual position, this is an off topic ad hom attack, but I would just ask you, brother, on what do you base this? I am a Christian in the anabaptist tradition, saved by God’s grace through faith in Jesus the Christ. You don’t know me from Adam, why would you make such a grace-less accusation, based on practically nothing? Do you think that people can’t disagree with you on a topic not found in the Bible and be a Christian?

    I’d suggest we’d all do best to stick to the topic, refrain from attacks and respond to one another in grace with respect, to best honor Christ our Lord.

    In Christ,

    Dan Trabue

  29. Comment by Michael George on September 22, 2016 at 7:44 pm

    Flags represent a worldly (ie non-Christian) system whereas the other items you listed not.

  30. Comment by Jonathan Ramsay on June 18, 2019 at 10:18 pm

    Well it’s plain to see what your idol is…

  31. Pingback by Steynian 479st | Free Canuckistan! on July 7, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    […] and Chief Rabbi Agree: Only Faith Can Save Society; Bloomberg vs. CAIR’s Interfaith Friends; U.S. Flags in Churches?; Ronald Reagan: What the 4th of July Means to Me; Independence Day Merits Celebration by U.S. […]

  32. Comment by FREDDY GALLO on March 2, 2015 at 8:01 pm

    How is it that those who pastor over the flock of GOD cannot see the carved images of the flag in the flag…GOD says it clearly not to serve or bow down to any carved image in the likeness of anything in heaven above or in the likeness of anything in the earth EXODUS chapter 20…DEUTERONOMY 4:15-19…The U.S. made a carved image in the likeness of the stars of heaven and set their carved images on a flag to serve them…The U.S. made a carved image in the likeness of an eagle of the earth and set the carved image of the bird on their service uniforms to serve…Israel made a carved image of a star in the likeness of heaven above and set their carved image on a flag to serve it…When you pledge your allegiance to the flag you are committing fornication with the carved images…The mark of the beast on the right hand or on the forehead stands for the heart and mind of the worshipper…When you pledge your allegiance to the flag you place your right hand over your heart or over your head to serve the carved image…

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