Tony Jones is a prominent emergent church blogger, speaker and author based at non denominational Solomon’s Porch church in Minneapolis. This past week he served as “scholar in residence” at Aldersgate United Methodist Church in Alexandria. Aldersgate has had other emergents such as Scott McKnight and Brian McLaren as its previous scholars. Sunday evening Jones spoke on “Why Is the United Methodist Church So Screwed Up?” He was careful to explain the topic was assigned to him by the pastors.
Calling himself a “pretty harsh critic of denominationalism,” Jones said John Wesley would be “kicked out” of the Methodist church today for ordaining people on the frontier and upsetting Anglican bishops. “He didn’t leave the Anglican Church, he was kicked out,” for spreading a “virus” of spiritual renewal, Jones recalled.
Jones seems to have conflated Wesley with circuit riding Methodist Bishop Francis Asbury, since Wesley never really was on the “frontier,” having visited America only briefly as a young man and never returning. And Wesley never left the Church of England. But Jones rightly explained the overall spirit of early Methodism.
Unlike the early Methodists, Jones noted that today’s young ordinands have to “jump thru hoops of burning fire” to enter the United Methodist ministry. He said the Twitter feed among younger clergy was “disheartening” during the recent General Conference because the old guard “won’t relinquish control.”
Jones lamented that church bureaucracies fail to trust the Holy Spirit, and modern evangelicals surpassed Mainline Protestants by their lack of institutionalism and reliance on the Spirit. Evangelicals were entrepreneurial and started new churches, while Mainline Protestantism “doesn’t value entrepreneurship.” The “negative side” is that the evangelical world is “almost all male” dominated with “loud white guys like me,” Jones said. Methodism was able to impose female pastors on churches that otherwise may have resisted. But the church needs to value more “entrepreneurial systems.”
United Methodist clergy are “completely beholden to the denomination even if you aren’t,” Jones told the mostly lay audience. And most lay people are no longer deeply devoted to their denomination’s theological distinctions. He bemusedly suggested a “coup d’état” by especially young clergy against a static institution.
Jones said “some of us are trying to encourage progressive elements of American Protestantism to find salvific elements” in our message. Evangelicals outflanked progressives in recent decades. “We have a message problem telling people about Jesus and gospel,” he admitted. Jones described his own local church having exchanged its pews for couches to emphasize reconciliation through socialization. “You have to euthanize some things to make room for gospel,” he observed. In the current era of “broken relationships” the church needs to focus on reconciliation.
In the audience, Episcopal author Diane Butler Bass told Jones he was too pessimistic about the possibility of institutional revival. “You Methodists aren’t alone,” she said. “Institutional Christianity is all in trouble. [But] we might be on the verge of a great awakening.” She said “real hope” will come from the “fringes” and not the “center.” Jones responded by explaining that “it’s hard for progressives to think of revival,” which in recent history has been conservative. He also surmised that growing socially conservative global south Christianity is “almost incompatible” with progressive Christianity.
After Jones’ talk I had the pleasure of meeting him and also Butler Bass, who smilingly insisted she is both a nice person and a sincere Christian, despite what my writing about her might have implied. I assured her I never intended to imply otherwise! We had an enjoyable conversation, and I said I would read her new book.
Comment by Mark Mealey on July 10, 2012 at 10:23 am
I think Tony Jones accidentally hit the nail on the head, diagnosing the current state of mainline Protestantism. “You have to euthanize some things to make room for gospel,” he said. A real conversation would be talking about demographics. It would be talking about babies and families. It would be talking about contraception and abortion. You would then also be able to talk sense about revival in the global south. “We had an enjoyable conversation.” But not a real conversation.
Comment by c ken weaveer on July 10, 2012 at 2:57 pm
The statement “….. don’t trust the Holy Spirit”, caught my attention. I will admit to being a skeptic of organized religion generally so my comment may be biased. I think one of the big problems with christian religion is that they don’t acknowledge an active Holy Spirit. They give it lip service but they don’t actually believe it any more than they believe there is an everpresent active God. In sunday school we were discussing anointing with oil as related in James chapter 5 and the generally accepted apolegetic wisdom was that back then oils were infused with healing herbs. I find that lamentable because no one actually believed the true meaning of the passage which is that if both the annointer and the receipent believed, then in fact God could heal you. And that is just one example; if people talked today the way people talked back in the day we would lock them up. Imagine someone today saying God spoke to me in a dream. We would think they were nuts. Is it the churches fault we don’t truly believe in the Holy spirit, and the power of God in our daily lives?
Pingback by Emergent Tony Jones Addresses United Methodists gathering, suggests a ‘coup d’état’ on July 14, 2012 at 12:04 am
[…] He is a native of Virginia and a life-long Methodist. This article first appear at the IRD blog ‘Juicy Ecumenism’ and is used with […]
Comment by Earl irby on August 12, 2017 at 11:26 am
For years I have been trying to biblically show my local UNC that there are big gaps between church practices and the Bible. They have went so far as to chastise me in the church office. Even to the point of creating lies to try and intimidate me to be quiet about Bible facts. Most would live the religious lie. Than admit what the Bible says. Most know that the pastor is full of lies on and off the pulpit and they still won’t see what the Bible says. Sad situation but i will never give up on Biblical truth.
Comment by C. M. Sheffield on July 14, 2012 at 6:55 pm
I don’t think most mainline “churches” have a clue as to who the Holy Spirit is from a historic and confessional perceptive. Their doctrine of the Holy Spirit is more akin to “the force” in Star Wars than anything in the Bible.
And Mr. Jones is correct in saying that global south Christianity is “almost incompatible” with progressive “Christianity.” They are more than incomparable. They are antithetical. They are two entirely different religions. Machen made this chrystal clear almost ninety years ago in “Christianity and Liberalism.” So I appreciate his recognizing that fact and saying so.
Comment by Jose Pepito Manansala Cunanan on September 6, 2012 at 7:26 pm
Your choice of the Mouses for your cover page is very American “Mickey Mouse” culture. If you would like to address Church or religious issues, you should be able to be more creative in your selection of images.
Comment by Jose Pepito Manansala Cunanan on September 7, 2012 at 8:01 pm
English is not my mother tongue— English-speaking folks should be more careful in their choice of words— what they mean may not be what is read re what they wrote. Checked on the Thesaurus re word SCREWED (Up or Down) .
The message is lost with the poor choice of words, language. You should know better as academician or professionals or intellectuals.
Your readers come from various backgrounds and your message is lost before it is understood— be more precise and direct to the point
SCREWED
Thesaurus:
beset with unfortunate circumstances that seem difficult or impossible to overcome; in imminent danger. They found out about our betrayal, so now we’re …
adjective 1. fastened with screws . 2. having grooves like a screw ; threaded. 3. twisted; awry. 4. Slang . bilked; cheated. 5. Chiefly British Slang . drunk …
screw (skr) n. 1. a. A cylindrical rod incised with one or more helical or advancing spiral threads, as a lead screw or worm screw. b. The tapped collar or socket …
1. screwed a more subtle substitute for the word “fucked” 1. describes someone who just had sex 2. the position that is a result of a problem or bad situation that …
Comment by CurtisMSP on February 20, 2015 at 5:17 pm
Tony doesn’t like mainline denominations, because he knows he would not make it through their screening process to be ordained.
Comment by Project Samizdat on March 11, 2016 at 10:08 pm
It is interesting that Tony Jones talks about ‘renewal’ and John Wesley so positively. He stands against almost all of the core beliefs that John Wesley held dear and Wesley would rightly have identified Jones as holding some sort of strange heterodox Christianity. Beware of the what is branded as a conversation but is actually reeducation:
https://thereluctantsamizdatwordpresscom.wordpress.com/2016/01/06/discussion-as-disinformation/