In advance of his defrocking yesterday by Eastern Pennsylvania United Methodist Church (UMC) officials, embattled Pastor Frank Schaefer joined MSNBC host Chris Matthews on Hardball Wednesday night to make his case.
Schaefer was convicted in a November church trial of presiding over a same-sex marriage. Given a 30 day suspension with the option to be restored to active ministry if he promised not to conduct further ceremonies in violation of the denomination’s governing Book of Discipline, Schaefer remained defiant.
“We actually don’t know what is going to happen tomorrow,” Schaefer told host Chris Matthews hours before his meeting with church officials. But when asked by Matthews if he would conduct a wedding ceremony for another same-sex couple, Schaefer offered a clear response: “I would absolutely do it again.”
The Pennsylvania clergyman was joined by retired Episcopal Church Bishop Gene Robinson, who is not United Methodist, but well known as the first openly partnered homosexual bishop in the worldwide Anglican Communion.
“We’re in a better place, I think,” Robinson reported, referring to the Episcopal Church’s openness to same-sex marriage, and not the condition of his former New Hampshire diocese, which lost almost 18 percent of its membership under his tenure. “We’ve moved further on this [marriage] issue.”
Robinson now lives part-time in Washington, D.C, where he serves as a fellow at the liberal Center for American Progress and bishop-in-residence at St. Thomas Episcopal Church.
“Jesus broke all kinds of rules, he was always getting in trouble for that and as best as we can figure out, doing the right thing – caring for people – always trumped rules,” Robinson assessed. “He was always getting in trouble for it and it seems to me that followers of Jesus should be doing the same thing — and that’s exactly what Pastor Schaefer is doing.”
Matthews interjected “that’s why we love Mary Magdalene,” with a laugh. “Because he [Jesus] was breaking the rules. Because he consorted with a woman who was perceived to be a prostitute.”
Robinson determined that Schaefer’s actions were “one of our great traditions in Christianity – which is basically civil or ecclesiastical disobedience. He’s doing something, he’s taking a punishment. Enough people will become fed up with punishing people in this way and the rules will change.”
Prompted by Matthews to elaborate on where he stood in the Christian tradition, Schaefer aimed high.
“I never chose this role, but now that I’ve been pulled into it I actually do feel that I stand in the tradition of Wesley who also broke rules, or Martin Luther or Martin Luther King,” The Pennsylvania pastor reported. “The world is watching me now and watching closely and I gladly take that baton and carry it for the time being.”
Asked if he could change the church of John Wesley by his actions, Scheafer responded “I don’t know if I can single-handedly do that. But right now I can do my part, and right now I seem to have the attention and so I will do that little part that I can do and hope that change will occur.”
Comment by gary on December 20, 2013 at 4:25 pm
I am amazed at the complete lack of integrity of Schaeffer. He took vows before God and the UMC leadership to uphold the BOD (not to mention the Bible) yet he is blatantly disobedient to those vows. What happened to integrity in the clergy ranks?
Comment by Roger on December 20, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Sometime in the future the rules of the UMC may change. God will not change his rules. He will be the judge who will be the last to make a ruling. If the rules of the UMC doesn’t change; a schism may come about. The rule that is in place now in the church is to be faithful, accountable, and obedient. Scripture always trumps secular thought and actions. Jeremiah asked “choose today whom you will serve”, it is still revealant in our time.
Comment by Jay Ferguson on December 21, 2013 at 12:37 pm
There will not be enough of the mainline churches to get fed up. LOLI sure hope African Methodist pastors will intenerate to the US. Liberals are a spiritually dead and physically dying brand.
Comment by Jeff Allen on December 21, 2013 at 1:27 pm
The thing that stood out the most to me was when Robinson said about Jesus: “As best as we can figure out, [he was] doing the right thing.” “As best as we can figure out?” What? He’s not even 100% sure that Jesus always said and did the right thing; no wonder he ignores the teaching of Jesus in Matt. 19:4-6, regarding marriage (one man – one woman).
Comment by bill on December 28, 2013 at 1:55 am
The thing that stood out to me was the ignorance those who commented on this article. Have any of you actually read the Bible? If you are not Orthodox Jews then it is unlikely that you follow anywhere near most of the laws in the Old Testament and yet you want others to follow the few that YOU think are important. Perhaps you should read what Jesus has said and follow the only two laws that he said are important “Love God” and “Love your Neighbor”.
Once you truly understand these laws, you will realize that all of your hatred for others who were created by God is misguided and maybe you can think beyond those who you follow and think for yourselves about what Jesus actually said instead of what they want you to think
Comment by Bishop Andrew Gerales Gentry on December 30, 2013 at 9:51 pm
“uphold the Bible” well let’s see, do you chaps observe the old Sabbath and if you do do you kill your servants who do not or your neighbors who do not?! Do you demand that your dead brother’s wife sleep with his brother? Do you support slavery? Just thought I would ask and if you reply well you have to look at the context of those verses isn’t that what you are always condemning rational people for doing! The Church gave us the Bible not the other way round and it did not even do that until 325AD! Oh and do you think that David whom God really loved who had hundreds of wives and thousands of concubines( read sex servants I will be kind) but said that it was his love for Johnathan that exceeded his love for women was a liberal heathen defying the Biblical standards?
Comment by Charlotte on January 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm
Amen and Amen, Bishop Andrew. You might also mention divorce and remarriage in the church — a topic on which Jesus Himself spoke directly. Yet none of these so-called “faithful” ever mention it — probably because so many of them have ignored those particular instructions.